Yea their formation involves like 3 rounds of combining, it would be best to have them settle into moist soil or water as haploid spores and start combining at that point.

I actually drew a visual of it, ignore the sheet and juvenile as those are species specific to my crystal, but the rest visualizes the typical crystal spore mess of combining.

Since you've mentioned it,
If a tree made males that had the behavior to go into deep torpor and not be devoured, the tree would either need to go into extreme torpor itself or starve during the winter, more likely the second one.

A descendent could be a population that does this, and results in a biennial worm that always dies in it's second winter.

Does oxygen need to be in respiration?

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Sep 14 2022, 06:32 AM)

I don't have time now to go over all of it yet, but I can offer quick feedback. Can you split the description into sections? It's odd to describe pheromone-laden mucus as "addictive". Does it have addictive compounds in addition to pheromones? Or is it better to say that the pheromones have an irresistible luring effect? It's worth saying because some substances which are habit-forming aren't necessarily (or indisputably) addictive. Milkshakes aren't necessarily as bad as cigarettes in addictive potential. If you do go for addictive compounds, nicotine is an option. Some plants have nicotine in their flower nectar, and bees can become addicted to it. Caffeine is another option. "The sleeve ferine bioaccumulates cadmium and lead in its wood, with a smaller quantity in its latex." It could be argued that, since the males eat Sleeve Ferine seedlings, the Sleeve Ferines haven't had enough time to accumulate much cadmium or lead. However, the cadmium and lead might become concentrated in the female as she eats her parthenogenetic clone-offspring. If the adult female has no way to eliminate lead and cadmium from her body, then she might eventually suffer toxic effects over years of consuming clones that have eaten sleeve ferines. There's an "it's/its" error at the end.

I split it up somewhat, I don't think I wrote it as streamlined as other descriptions so it's a little more difficult.

I think I prefer the irresistible approach, since true addiction could cause survival problems. Thank you for that.

I added a bit about the sleeve Ferine, and I may add more in that section about the affects this species has on forest health and their environment.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 14 2022, 06:14 AM)

Support cannot just list material. It must describe the method and structure as well.

Added exoskeleton.

I've been meaning to ask you, since the greater lahn is yours, how a 3 foot tall wing thick as a large sharpie supported itself.

I was wanting to give this a wafflecone texture internal skeleton and/or lengths of support arranged like the bones in a corset, though round and built for top down compressive strength rather than flat.

But if you had other thoughts I'm interested.

https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Binuc...s_Crystal_Shrub

Bottom of page describes the complex cycle of reproduction for them

The haploids are what are going to be your airborne spores.

Trunklahn (Addictus moi)

Ancestor : Greater Lahn
Creator: colddigger
Height: 5 m Tall
Habitat: Drake Temperate Woodland
Diet: Photosynthesis, Detritivore, Carnivore (Offspring); Males Herbivore (Fuzzpile Seedlings and Berries, Syrup Ferine Seedlings and Berries, Sleeve Ferine Seedlings and Berries, Wafflebark Ferine Seedlings and Berries, Lurtress Seedlings, Lurspire Seedlings, Lurcreeper Seedlings, Marbleflora, Pioneeroots)
Support: Exoskeleton (Chitin)
Respiration: Semi-Active (Unidirectional Tracheae)
Thermoregulation: Ectotherm (Basking)
Reproduction: Sexual (Sequential Hermaphrodite, Eggs), Asexual (Parthenogenesis)

The Trunklahn split from its ancestor, competing with purple flora led to greater emphasis on the height of just a few wings. These wings become fewer and fewer, and larger and larger until the population became what they are now. The mass of wings that grew from the back of the female have become dominated by one wing that has redeveloped its structure into a singular trunk that supports branching growths off of the top and sides. Which wing becomes dominant to form the trunk is determined by greatest blood flow, which just happens to occur in the second front left wing in the majority of Trunklahn. Some individuals experience other wings becoming dominant, however.

Toward the base of the trunk there are offshoots that will point downward in order to anchor into the soil and help resist stresses that may topple it. When mature the other wings are shed or reabsorbed into the female body.

Although it has become a larger structure it still lacks any equivalent of a microphyll or leaflet, continuing to rely on structures that are primarily vascular systems as opposed to any particularly specialized tissue surface or organ for photosynthesis beyond what had already existed in its ancestors.

Being a lineage of worm it still relies on its unidirectional tracheal system in its primary body for all of its gaseous exchange needs. Because of this both the front and rearmost points of the body have moved in order to remain exposed above the surface to maximize their ability to pass air through this tracheal system.

When mature the primary occupying organ of the body of the female is the heart, to be able to move liquid up to the highest most points in the wing it needs to be comparably massive to the rest of the organs. The second largest system in the body are the reproductive organs for churning out offspring. Digestion and absorption of nutrients is performed entirely along the surface of the branching tongue-roots.

Obtaining CO2 and Function of Blood

Because all gas exchange occurs in the main body of the worm, where their respiration remains, it means that there is no gas exchange at the top of the wings where photosynthesis occurs. Due to this all carbon dioxide used for photosynthesis is passed to the top of the wings through the blood system. The blood does not actually exchange carbon dioxide into the atmosphere via exhaling, as heterotrophic worms do, rather it becomes a sink for co2 while oxygen ends up being fairly freely exchanged as it increases in concentration in the blood due to photosynthesis breaking water and creating more of it that enters into the lahn blood system. Due to this excess of oxygen mature worms tend to be a little bit anemic.

Unfortunately as the worm becomes more dependent on photosynthesis, actually becoming entirely dependent on it for energy purposes once fully mature, the carbon dioxide content of its blood goes down quite a bit. This is simply due to the difference between atmospheric carbon dioxide and the carbon dioxide found in the blood of typical active heterotrophs, the second being about a hundred times more concentrated than the first. This of course is what allows passive exchange of carbon dioxide from the blood into the atmosphere as a heterotroph exhales or however it happens to exchange waste gas with its environment. To get around this sudden drop in available carbon the Trunklahn employs parthenogenetically created offspring.

Parthenogenetically created males stay around their mother tree as long as the tree is alive. This captivation of them by the mother tree is maintained by the tips of specialized tongue-roots that stick out of the surface of the soil and secrete highly irresistible compounds derived from attractive pheromones. The males stick around the area going about their daily lives feeding and multiple times a day visit a tongue tip to consume the thin layer of secretion on it.

When not busy satiating their want for mucus the males feed primarily on any seedlings of purple flora they can find. These baby organisms are still rich in energy from their seeds and their tissues are still soft and easy to chew. This food preference has the added benefit of thinning potential canopy competition with Trunklahns in the area. When seedlings cannot be found they will settle for other small purple flora.

Similar to their mature counterpart the male worm will not exhale carbon dioxide as a waste gas, rather it has a hyperactive response to excess carbon dioxide in its blood by sinking it into reserves of carbonate that it stores in its body. When the mother tree senses that it's carbon contents is becoming low, then when one of the males begins feeding on a tongue-root tip it will suddenly become stuck and be wrenched downward into the soil where the tongue-roots will kill it to pull all of its carbonate stores from its body. The more complex carbon compounds are gradually broken down to be consumed as well, and any valuable minerals or nutrients along with it.

Sexual Reproduction

Sexually produced males are sporadically created as the chance arises, there is no particular breeding season. If a rogue male from another tree is sensed to be feeding from a tongue tip, which is determined via the tongue-root tip tasting them as it feeds, the tip will release true attractive pheromones. These pheromones will put the rogue male in an aroused state and it will mate with the comparatively massive female.

The resulting males from the coupling do not receive much favor from the tongue-root tips as their parthenogenetically born brothers. If one is tasted to be feeding the tip stops producing attractants all together until the male goes away. This weaning and prevention results in sexually produced males straying further away from their mother than their brothers, and becoming rogue wandering males often occurs. Many get picked off, but some stumble across a new Trunklahn with which they will breed. Others that survive but don't find a mate by the end of summer will eventually become large females themselves.

Winter Survival

Over the summer the males, regardless of the living situation, will bulk up fat stores on fallen fruit and whatever consumable vegetation they can find. When the temperature starts dropping they either find or create nearby burrows to overwinter while in a state of torpor. During this cold period the female tree will enter torpor as well, gradually absorbing the tissue that makes up it's wing beginning with the tips and branchings. The addicted males will still venture out every so often to attempt feeding on tongue-root tip mucus, only to be dragged down and consumed as the unwitting winter food stores of the female tree. Typically all males are devoured by the time spring emerges. If one somehow survives the winter it will remain in its burrow and mature into a young female tree.

Tidbits

On the death of a female all males under the tree's influence will scatter from the lack of attractant and stimulant. They all become rogue males that go through the process of either finding a mate or becoming a tree.

In areas with established Sleeve Ferine populations their seedlings will make up a large chunk of the males' diet. Although their toxic element contents are minimal enough that it won't affect the males, over time as the female feeds these elements will accumulate and through biomagnification can become quite concentrated. This results in stunted growth, fewer functional and males produced, and even the premature death of the tree. The lower number of males picking off other purple flora as well means the forests become denser in these areas and less spacious.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 13 2022, 11:42 AM)

I've imagined that the vascular system would be made of hyphae bundled together, would that be the structure of the "roots" where present?

To touch on this again, I think because small crystals would rely so heavily on their mycelium-like growth, if they were to go for larger sizes again that needed thicker anchors then this would probably be the case for any root-like forms coming off them.
Tight mycelial bundles.
The only real use they would have for the parenchymal tissue underground would be budding, and *maybe* spreading outward for that budding.

I think it's still the same as usual, but the spores are airborne for a period of time before settling into either moist soil, I had asked hydromancer about this before with his green Crystal line.

It could be different though, that's just my input

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 13 2022, 02:44 PM)

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Sep 13 2022, 04:19 PM) "die generation after generation" This suggests their colonization was futile, rather than inevitable for individual organisms, and significant due to the populations' colonization success. Hm, how could I reword this then? Because I was trying to imply that as the species that evolved from colonists lived in these area, individuals would be dying all the time.

I would word it to illustrate that these individuals are living out their lifecycles and building up organic matter.

So it's been settled that my sudden interpretation of

"Without any outer layer they are only consumers feeding on the microorganisms in the sand and coast. "

From
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Ora_Koral_Crystal

Was a misunderstanding, and is likely meant that the Photosynthetic layer, which would be the outer layer of the hard symbiont, is just atrophied or missing.

Which goes more in line with the rest of the lineage, makes more sense, and means the reproductive cycle can remain more conservative to typical crystals.

On the topic of reproduction, these would have haploid, then protospore, but...

It is my understanding that korystals lack a green symbiont. Let me know if I'm wrong. So that protospore, dikaryotic still, is what moves on to create the korystal.

That I think is a fascinating development as previously it always appeared as though the green symbiont was what dictated and granted a supported shape.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 13 2022, 11:42 AM)

I've imagined that the vascular system would be made of hyphae bundled together, would that be the structure of the "roots" where present?

Funnily enough the only real instance of a vascular system being suggested in older submissions was one of the korystal ancestors that had "webs of hatches", from what I can tell.

https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Ora_Koral_Crystal

Which is interesting.
Although not immediately sharing a branch I did take this and create a more elaborate form for the doctor pickle submission.
I wanted to discuss it more with hydro, and am still happy to have his input on it's existence. Since I suggested in my submission that one of his creations has something similar, and I'm completely willing to edit that.




The most basal form of the red tissue is a sheet, followed by a ball of cells for spreading purposes:

https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Mega_...eusdetritivorus
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Binucleus_Icosahedron

This nonlinear form of cell growth structure, and possibly unconnected, would result in a more parenchyma like growth habit, just spongy looking not stringy, once inside the casing of green tissue.

This does not necessarily diverge from "fungus-like" as lichens have comparable structures in their fungal parts.

https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...732/ajb.1600403

This also allows easy explanation for the tissues of worms arising.

This red stuff would poke out from the bottom of the first crystals, but pretty quickly give rise to derived mycelial structures to enhance their ability to feed on their surroundings. I think in small crystals having large anchors would be unnecessary but in larger ones the red growths would probably be retained for the sake of remaining upright, which would explain their display in some submission artwork.

Although derived I think the hyphae does play a significant part in their survival and movement of nutrients toward their core, and could fulfill even larger roles in their body.

Crystals from ancestry have a weird combo of root and mycelium, roots are complex things with lots of parts and layers and from what I can tell they didn't develop that. It would probably even be a detriment to have all the layers roots have.
Mycelium is on the other hand single cell wide strands perfect for a lifestyle of consuming, and is definitely a structure that crystals converge on, but not good for anchoring large tall Flora.

From what I can tell they have thick growths (vaguely root like) that could form budding and anchoring, off of which fractal branching, or just strings, of mycelium grow for the brunt of searching soil for food.

Smaller crystals would probably have very minimal "root like" parts, other than for budding or center point for all that mycelium-like growth to send nutrients and water toward.

For the Reproduction I did a visual life cycle in the doctor pickle submission, although keep in mind it is meant for that species so it may be a little bit different, but the idea is still the same.

Hangnail Infectoids (Breakofficus spp.)

creator: colddigger
ancestor: Buhmungus Infectoids
habitat: Oceans
diet: Microbes, sanguinivore
size: 0.05cm - 1cm long (mature), 1nanometer long (dormant spore)
support: Cell Membrane
respiration: Passive Diffusion
thermoregulation: Ectotherm
reproduction: Asexual, Virus-like Infection, Spores, Fragmentation, Sexual, Budding

Hangnail Infectoids split from their ancestor Buhmungus Infectoids to take on a more specialized lifecycle. There are many different kinds of Hangnail Infectoids, and all are found in saltwater environments. Free living stages, and dormant spores, remain fairly similar in appearance and function as its ancestor. However a new stage in its lifecycle emerged from selection resulting in multicellular hosts becoming more adequate, and eventually the obligate form of host.

Formation of asexually and sexually resultant spores remains the same as the Buhmungus Infectoid, however they remain dormant without a multicellular host and and do not infect microbes. This results in the majority being consumed by microbes and killed, however the layer of lysosomes results in the death of the predator. This lowers the number of hungry microbes in an area with spores and increases the survival rate of the next batch created for a longer period of time. If the free living mature organism is killed, of course this stops the production of spores, and if all its spores are devoured by microbes after that then individual fails entirely to reproduce. The shroud membrane remains an existing part of the infectoid and spore, continuing to play its role as bait for scavengers.

Infection of a multicellular host can be via the mouth or the gills, as either method brings it in contact with live epithelial cells. Once in contact with a live epithelial cell the spore will activate, shedding its shroud membrane and infiltrating the host cell. once inside it rapidly goes through the standard infectoid process of capturing the nucleus, shrouding itself, and replicating host glycolipids, extracellular compounds, and other cellular recognition tags of the host. There are two subgenus groups, uniasci and biasci, members of the uniasci specialize in parasitizing eukaryotic fauna while biasci may parasitize both eukaryotic as well as dikaryotic fauna. This distinction is based on the biasci spore containing the capacity to capture two prisoner nuclei given the abscence of a recessive allele, while in the presence of such an allele it may only capture one. No Hangnail Infectoids infect flora.

Once established in its host cell the infectoid will feed passively off the nutrients and oxygen supplied by the blood of its host, or whatever means the host organism feeds its cells. If the host cell actively participates in the digestive process then the infectoid will not participate beyond the creation and release of substances, following blueprints provided by prisoner nuclei and the same pathways of transport inside vacuoles used for glycolipids to the surface of the shroud membrane. If the host cell participates in more complex behaviors in order to obtain nutrients then the infectoid will perish.

As the Hangnail Infectoid cell continues to obtain material it will undergo mitosis, replicating its nucleus without replicating the prisoner nucleus. One daughter cell inherits the prisoner nucleus, while one does not. The two resultant daughter cells cause the space inside the shroud membrane to become cramped. The daughter cell without a prisoner nucleus pushes the shroud membrane outward, in search of neighboring host cells. Contacting the neighboring cell results in the merging of the shroud membrane with the cell membrane of the neighboring host cell and immediate capture of the native nucleus and submission of its cytoplasm via lysosomes and enzymes. The infectoid moving in establishes itself as the new source of glycolipids and pinches down its entryway to a minor septum or pore. This allows the cavity created to continue cytoplasmic exchange between the intermembrane spaces of the sister infectoids while replicating the native structure of the host.

This growth process repeats until reaching the rough size of a mature member of its given species, at which point the septums or pores of the following generation are cut off entirely, the newly cut off daughter cells repeating the process while the mature sized biomass ceases outward growth and switches to a different a behavior, a process similar to the spore production performed by free-bodied members in open waters. These spores enter the blood stream or cavities of the host and spreads through the body to cause metastatic infections of epithelial tissues. Muscles, nerves, bones and other support tissues are spared from infection. The infection generally leads to infertility as gonad cells become infected and nonfunctional. Spores may reinfest through shroud membranes, as there is no chemical distinction between it and the cell membranes of the host body, however there will be no available nucleus to capture and they will act as a dud infectoid cell inside the shroud membrane.

Eventually a significant majority of the soft tissue of the larger host is converted to Hangnail Infectoids. The blood will be rich in spores, and the mature infectoids will accumulatea high number of dud cells, reaching a tipping point that triggers them to enter their final phase of life. Once a threshold of dud cells is met, mature Hangnail Infectoids will separate from one another, pulling themselves into shape to begin life in the open waters. This process is rather sudden and results in the host body crumbling apart as hundreds or thousands of individuals attempt to leave at once. This cloud of mature free-bodied infectoids lives life similar to their ancestors, filtering out food from their environment and releasing spores behind them as they swim. Sexual reproduction remains the same.

Due to the dud cell trigger that causes the completion of the lifecycle, those infectoids that have found themselves in very large hosts may not successfully reach their tipping point for many years if at all.

Amerburgerican (Bos delicii)

Ancestor: Needlewing
Creator: colddigger
Habitat: Wallace Tropical Rainforest
Size: 80 cm Tall
Diet: Photosynthesis, Carnivore
Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood)
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Reproduction:

The Amerburgerican split from its ancestor to take on a faster life cycle in a rainforest environment. Sexual dimorphism has arisen in this species, with sedentary females and active males. The species is nocturnal, with males housing large sensitive eyes in their heads. Females are consciously active during night as well, responding to and interacting with males in their proximity, while during the day they will sleep and photosynthesize. mature males lack any significant photosynthetic tissue, a mere strip along the ventral edge of their wings is all that remains. The photosynthetic tissues of females have become large, thick, and distinctive organs comparable to succulent leaves concentrated toward the middle portion of their long wings.

Skirted Dumpy-Lump (Parvamassus fimbria)

Creator: colddigger
Ancestor: Needlewing
Habitat: Darwin Veldt
Size: 30 cm Long
Diet: Photosynthesis, Carnivore
Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood)
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Thermoregulation:
Reproduction:

Plyentree Venterpotatorus acervi

Creator: colddigger
Ancestor: River Plyent
Habitat: Wallace Tropical Rainforest
Size: 2 Meters Tall
Diet: Photosynthesis, Detritivore
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood)
Thermoregulation: Mesotherm
Reproduction: Sexual, Mucus Bound Spores, Two Genders

The Plyentree split from its ancestor to take on a more terrestrial lifestyle. They've redeveloped their singular eye for the sake of navigation. Despite having become more terrestrial, it's limbs still require a consistently moist environment in order to absorb nutrients. This leads to the larval form seeking out mud and bogs and seeps and other areas where standing water or consistent moisture exists to rest on or sink their limbs into and mature.

The reality of areas being better or worse for this use resulted in larvae accumulating in certain spots far more densely than others, resulting in piles of the small organisms attempting to reach the mud where it's weddest and push the others out. Quickly what resulted was the discovery of another source of moisture, The remnant cavities inside their neighbors.

The body of the plyents were not suited for the expulsion of their sudden intruders, but if they became too weak due to the extraction of moisture and nutrients then it became problematic for those that were feeding off of them. This rapidly selected for a two-way street where nutrients taken up by those directly in the mud was able to pass through the thin membranes of their internal cavity and the membrane of the limb stuck in them, and the passage of photosynthesis products back down to them for absorption.

This development of cooperation between individuals meant that they could just continually pile on top of one another to create larger and larger colonies. The limbs and body of a mature Plyentree are long and twist and wrap around their neighbors in order to secure the structure. The majority of photosynthesis occurs across the surface of the long body.

Reproduction is still performed with sexual spores, but rather than being released into the air The masses are oozed out in a thin mucus that dribbles down from the orifice of the Plyentree, down its sides and limbs, eventually into the orifices of those beneath it. As the spores join to form a zygote, which develops into a free embryo, the mucus it sits in is shifted from thin and runny to thick and nutrient rich. It grows to about the size of a marble then leaves the safety of the orifice and slides and tumbles down the side of the colony to the ground. Scampering off it will continue to grow, seeking light and water, and eventually settle into a new permanent home. Finding a young colony to clamber to the top of is preferable, being middle of the colony grants reproductive mucus the most mates to trickle down to before becoming too dilute by other members, while also allowing the Plyentree to grow larvae off its own directly. If no other colonies can be found it may settle into mud on its own, until another larva stumbles upon it to join and gradually form a fresh colony.

Waddling Wortplyent

Creator: colddigger
Ancestor: River Plyent
Habitat: Wallace Tropical Rainforest
Size: 1 Meters Tall
Diet: Photosynthesis, Detritivore
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood)
Thermoregulation: Mesotherm
Reproduction: Sexual, Airborne Spores, Two Genders

The Waddling Wortplyent split from its ancestor and became more terrestrial. Its limbs have become thicker, and quicker, for better mobility across terrain. Along its limbs, body, and wings are visible nubs and growths that house nitrogen fixing microbes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel

If they are not collapsing on themselves then it would be kind of a living aerogel.

Heavier than a lot of aerogel, but given the structure id be curious what the actual mass is at 1 cm^3

Oh then it doesn't make sense

" there is only one genus region for the entire seafloor? That doesn't seem right"

I assume it doesn't include coasts, vents, seeps etc.

At the depth of the ocean floor it's a little more homogenous afaik.

Go for it

It looked like the list got a trim

" even the srugeing itself had only evolved a few million years " misspelling? Not sure

" much older lineage than the surge gilltails as a whole" misspelling? Not sure

" began to prey on larger prey items in turn." Maybe say hunt larger prey, less repetitive

I have not paid attention to this lineage but this species sounds like a unique flighted predator, their spawning sounds like a great feast for gilltails.

Could call them yellow Flora, or kiiros, honestly I think either will work.

Some people might get confused with vandriswoop or something, but that's common names for ya

"These pours also help let carbon dioxide in and oxygen "

Pores not pours, autocorrect and voice to text are silly how they don't acknowledge context.