I've made this wiki page covering integument of various organisms, since it gets misinterpreted so much:
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Integument

Can anyone help fill this out more?

Parasitic floats are purple flora. They don't have the motility to "grasp" things.

If you viewed this thread before early last year, you would have been able to download all files that were posted: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/conceptual_...wiki-t9784.html

Did you or someone you know download the files within? One in particular containing a backup of the entirety of the old Sagan 4 forum, including lost threads such as the sapient contest and the tribal game, was posted at some point, and we are trying to locate anyone who has this file since LadyM deleted it.

Even if your computer died between then and now, you should still have the file as long as the death of your computer was unrelated to the hard drive. If you think you might have downloaded the file, please search your hard drive for any traces of it. It might have a weird name, in which case you may need to sort by date to find things you downloaded around that time. It should be either a .rar, a .sql, or a .bz2 file.

It's meant for a cold climate, actually.

For some more context, for a while I've been planning a three-way symbiosis between a drakeshrog descendant, a bannertail descendant, and a third species which was originally gonna be a sauceback but I've replaced it with a descendant of the taserflame; the three species become interdependent on one another to survive in a harsh polar environment, and one of the big factors locking the shrog into the relationship is the combined pressures of reducing surface area to avoid losing heat and minimizing energy wasted processing softened food shortening its snout to the point that it can't survive without the taserflame descendant's culinary skills.

When I say brachycephalic I don't just mean a short face, I mean flat, like a man. Bears and walruses don't hold a candle to what I'm going for.

On the prongoli descendant, when I add sexual reproduction to inexplicably asexual things, I just kinda go "the spores are sexual now". The simplest way to do it would be to have it depend on water, like a fern; if it needs to live somewhere arid, it'll need to evolve a female spore-receiving organ.

As for the ferine, the polar woodland would have significantly more open space for it to grow. (It's like those winter wonderland type environments you might've seen where there's snow and big christmas tree-looking conifers scattered throughout)

--

I've been working on a concept for a brachycephalic shrog, inspired by a well-known deformed white tiger. I believe I know how it can avoid the breathing problems common in brachycephalic animals on Earth, as unlike a pug or a persian cat its face shortened gradually so it doesn't have any parts that are still growing like it has a long snout (the palate not being shrunken with the rest of the snout is a big part of why pugs have so much trouble breathing). However, I think it's still gonna get a lot of questions, as breathing problems are not the only issue with brachycephalism. What else is there that I should note/explain? Pic relevant (but very wip, probably gonna change the nose)

I meant the leaves and fruit of the respective species, sorry.

I'll edit and add Scarlethorns to the diet.

The harsh comment was mainly in reference to how this lineage got their hands in the first place--Flisch had a bad habit of assuming stuff and not reading descriptions and thought plenthogs couldn't smell, so he made a novel organ for it instead of realistically modifying their barbels. On the meta side of things, it literally never needed to happen and frankly probably should not have.

A lot of modern major forest fires are happening because of climate change. What were previously temperate rainforests are becoming more like subtropical woodlands and chaparrals, which are arid and fire-prone, and all those big trees make great kindling. While taserflames can probably cause fires to happen more frequently, they're kept under control by the climate as well as fires caused by lightning strikes would be. I figure they're probably also instinctively careful with fire, at least more careful than humans, since starting a forest fire hurts them as much as it hurts everything else.

I have them eating crystal flora and various plants that look like they probably have fairly tough leaves as well. Crystals in particular have very high chitin content, which can be just as difficult to digest as cellulose.

I'm not sure about spicy food, but some of the plants they eat seem to use acid which I've interpreted as being similar to citric acid, so they might enjoy a lemon.

Given that the bump is partly formed by an external limb fused to the body, I think it would always be visible.

I may still edit this, I feel like I'm forgetting something important.

Also, big rip to Sagon, this creature does basically everything it could do with a fraction of the brain power

Approved

Taserflame (Ignifulgur coquus)
Creator: Disgustedorite
Ancestor: Fuzzcoat
Habitat: Drake Rocky, Drake Boreal, Drake Temperate Woodland, Drake Chaparral
Size: 50 cm long
Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood)
Diet: Omnivore (Hopping Ketter, Mini-Flower Ketter, Toxplage Ketter, poisonous Minikruggs, Scarlethorn, Thorny Hedgelog fruit, Alpine Hedgelog fruit, Xidhorchia leaves and fruit, Purple Poison Shrub leaves and fruit, Toxplage leaves and fruit, poisonous Marbleflora, Vesuvianite Tree crystals, Baseejie crystals, Towering Grovecrystal crystals, Greatcap Baseejie crystals, Pagoda Crystal, Forest Venomerald, Supershrooms, Sapshrooms, Arid Ferine leaves and berries, Brickbark Ferine leaves and berries, Wafflebark Ferine leaves and berries, Syrup Ferine leaves and berries, Sleeve Ferine leaves and berries, Forest Quone), Scavenger (Fresh Meat)
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Thermoregulation: Endotherm (Cotton)
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Live Birth)

The taserflame split from its ancestor. It has taken on a preference for tougher and potentially toxic food, but rather than investing in a larger gut or poison resistance, it has taken a different, less energy-intensive approach. This creature has learned to make and control fire, which it uses to cook its food. This has allowed it to consume organisms which it normally would not be able to due to its small size and lack of teeth. The behavior has its roots in accidental fire-starting, which can happen to any tasertongue, and gradually became favorable both by them as individuals because it made food taste better and evolutionarily because it allowed them to eat things they couldn’t previously. The current form of the cooking behavior came about from roughly 200 thousand years of optimization.

The appearance of a tasertongue which uses fire to cook its food may immediately bring back memories of the extinct [[sagon]], a sophont which was tragically wiped out by the expansion of endless ice and tundra which defined the Bloodian period. The taserflame is no sophont, however--indeed, it’s on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum among living tasertongues due to its ancestor going through a period of having no predators to keep up with. This is not to say it isn’t smart, of course, as it’s very difficult for the sister lineage of a sophont to lose it all even over tens of millions of years. But the emergence of fire usage is not directly connected to intellectual ability or tool use at all--rather, it is rooted in biology. Like all tasertongues, the taserflame can produce an electrical shock using its tongue. This can create a spark, which in turn can potentially set dry plant material on fire. Unlike other organisms which can only create fire using incredibly advanced tool use, the taserflame can quite literally grab some kindling and will it to be set ablaze.

Taserflames can build fires wherever they please using piles of wood, but these are only used for warmth. Their tool use is overall limited; in fact, depending on one’s definition of tool use, one could argue that they can’t use tools at all, as they do not use objects as extensions of their bodies. As such, they cannot hold sticks with a food item attached to the end over a fire like they’re roasting marshmallows, so to cook, they must instead use a fire pit with sticks laid over it like a grill to suspend their food. They do not make their own fire pits, instead using natural dips in the ground or repurposing abandoned bannertail spawning pools. Dry wood, plent bones, or dung gathered from their surroundings is used as fuel, and, using their electric tongues, kindling such as dry leaves or plent cotton is set ablaze and immediately dropped in the pit. Over a scaffolding of sticks laid across the pit they place fresh meat, crystal branches, and various leaves, fruits, and small fauna which would otherwise be toxic to them. The process of cooking neutralizes toxins, kills harmful microbes, and increases the amount of bioavailable nutrients by breaking down cell walls and complex tissues, and tough leaves which would normally prick their mouths soften into something far more edible. This is especially valuable because, like most plents, the taserflame has a blind gut and as such can only digest one meal at a time; making food more nutritious and easier to digest allows it to get more out of that one meal before it regurgitates it to eat something else.

Like their ancestor, taserflames live in groups, though they rarely exceed 50 members. A group of taserflames is called a mob. They do not migrate, instead preferring to inhabit a specific area which is not likely to be burned down by their use of fire, such as a collection of small caves or an abandoned bannertail-drakeshrog “village”. Unlike other tasertongues, which often violently smash their heads together over disputes or mating rights, taserflames are largely more social and friendly with one another and all headbutting is comparatively gentle and ritual, more comparable to goats than, say, pachycephalosaurs; as a result, their skull caps are smaller. Their small body size makes them vulnerable to predation, but at the same time, they can also easily duck into small hiding spots which their predators may struggle to extract them from. Though taserflames do not instinctively use tools, their reflexes to avoid burning themselves will sometimes result in them chucking a burning pile of leaves straight ahead; some individuals may do this intentionally to scare away predators after previously doing so on accident, though it can backfire if there’s a lot of flammable material around.

Taserflames often split up into smaller bands of 3-8 to forage and hunt. In addition to collecting their usual diet of toxic and hard-to-digest flora and fauna, they regularly follow large predators on hunts and use their knife-like fangs to cut slabs of meat (or, more rarely, entire limbs) from fresh kills. Due to their small size, they are usually ignored when they do this and are only rarely picked off as food. Pack-hunters, especially multi-species packs such as those of bannertails and drakeshrogs, may even make room for the taserflames while eating due to their instincts to share.

Like their ancestor, and like most terrestrial plents, taserflames mate mouth to mouth and give live birth. Unlike their ancestor, female taserflames do not stay in one place while pregnant. However, they do still stay relatively close to home to avoid endangering their unborn offspring. Pregnant females stand slightly upright during late pregnancy to avoid tipping over. They give birth inside dens, which are usually made from natural caves, hollow logs, or abandoned nests or burrows of other creatures. Their offspring are semi-precocial, already fluffy and able to move around on their own but largely helpless, somewhat like toddlers. They reach full size in less than a year due to their highly nutritious diet. Notably, while adults can still digest raw meat if they need to, juveniles cannot.

In addition to behavioral changes, the taserflame has some body changes. Its butt nostril is bisected, granting redundancy that protects it from suffocation. The skin on its tongue is more calloused and pigmented to protect it from its own flame as well as from accidentally absorbing uncooked toxins, and as a result, it can no longer smell using it; however, this is not a problem, because like all plenthogs it has been able to smell using its barbels (which its fangs are set on) all along for hundreds of millions of years and never actually needed to smell with its tongue in the first place. Its fangs are more knife-like and are used to cut its food, particularly to remove thorns and spikes and chop up larger pieces of meat, like a built-in version of its extinct sophont relative’s butchering tools. Its tympanic ears are set deeper into its head, making them less vulnerable to damage. The rise of cooking and the need to run from predators has resulted in taserflames generally taking on a leaner build.

----

I was originally planning on making a shrog that uses fire...then I realized the level of tool use needed was a little bit too brain. Then I realized that tasertongues don't need tool use at all to make fire. So, this happened.
Also, a fun little unofficial caption for the main artwork: Reflexive fireball toss in 3...2...

Yes, that circular part is the lung. It's absent on my species because it internalized the lung.

I've added a plenthog issue to the list at the start of the thread.

On the size thing, I probably would have put that as not the same size but with the exception clause called. I'm glad my reasoning was understood either way, though.

I don't know about others, but I capitalize Argusraptor in descriptions regardless of other capitalization because it's the name of the genus.

Yeah, looks good now.

Only 2 diorama contest entries got any votes at all. As a result, we are having a tiebreaker for third place. Vote here: https://forms.gle/8XCvQG8C96eSVMBf8

The winner of the tiebreaker will have their diorama added to the week 3 overview page. Voting ends on July 7th.

Not all suggested changes were made.

I disagree with mni's approval checklist so I'm doing one
Approval Checklist:
Art:
Art Present?: Y
Art clear?: Y
Gen number?: Y
All limbs shown?: Y
Reasonably Comparable to Ancestor?: Y
Realistic additions?: Y

Name:
Binomial Taxonomic Name?: Y
Creator?: Y

Ancestor:
Listed?: Y
What changes?:

• External?: Different coloration, more robust mandibles, narrower hooves, more developed young, cursorial limbs
• Internal?: N/A
• Behavioral/Mental?: Herding behavior

Are Changes Realistic?: Y
New Genus Needed?: N

Habitat:
Type?: 2/2 (Temperate and Montane)
Flavor?: 2/3 (Scrubland and Grassland)
Connected?: Y
Wildcard?: N/A

Size:
Same as Ancestor?: N (Bigger)
Within range?: Y
Exception?: N/A

Support:
Same as Ancestor?: Not listed (should be Endoskeleton (Chitin)) Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Diet:
Same as Ancestor?: Y (Same diet, different items)
Transition Rule?: N/A
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A

Respiration:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Thermoregulation:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Reproduction:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Description:
Length?: Good
Capitalized correctly?: Y
Replace/Split from ancestor?: Not stated (assumed split?) Y
Other?: N/A

Status: Approved (Unless anyone has objections)

Approval Checklist:
Art:
Art Present?: Y
Art clear?: Y
Gen number?: Y
All limbs shown?: Y
Reasonably Comparable to Ancestor?: Y
Realistic additions?: Y

Name:
Binomial Taxonomic Name?: Y
Creator?: Y

Ancestor:
Listed?: Y
What changes?:

• External?: Larger claws, stronger and more robust limbs, varied bubble scale size, bony crests, milk patches, tapeta lucida
• Internal?: N/A
• Behavioral/Mental?: Bone-eating

Are Changes Realistic?: Y
New Genus Needed?: Y (Too many external changes, particularly the re-emergence of milk and the addition of crests) Y (done)

Habitat:
Type?: 2/2 (Temperate and Montane)
Flavor?: 3/3 (Woodland, Scrubland, Grassland)
Connected?: Y
Wildcard?: N/A
Other: I would like to suggest adding Drake Rocky as well - it's within range and makes the connection to Drake High Grassland more robust Done

Size:
Same as Ancestor?: N (Larger)
Within range?: Y
Exception?: N/A

Support:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Diet:
Same as Ancestor?: N (+Osteophagy)
Transition Rule?: N/A / In Range
Reasonable changes (if any)?: Y

Respiration:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Thermoregulation:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Reproduction:
Same as Ancestor?: Y (but see Other)
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: I suggest mentioning the use of milk, as is standard for other species. Done

Description:
Length?: Acceptable (and long)
Capitalized correctly?: Y
Replace/Split from ancestor?: Y (split)
Other?: N/A

Status: Approved

Approval Checklist:
Art:
Art Present?: Y
Art clear?: Y
Gen number?: Y
All limbs shown?: Y
Reasonably Comparable to Ancestor?: Y
Realistic additions?: Y

Name:
Binomial Taxonomic Name?: Y
Creator?: Y

Ancestor:
Listed?: Y
What changes?:

• External?: Fuzzy integument, more horns on face, shorter/more compact hind feet, different coloration
• Internal?: Stiffer lignin, more frequent reproduction
• Behavioral/Mental?: "watch each other's backs"? (unclear if ancestor did this or if it was actually intended as a change)

Are Changes Realistic?: Y
New Genus Needed?: Y (already done)

Habitat:
Type?: 1/2 (Montane)
Flavor?: 2/3 (Grassland, Woodland)
Connected?: Y
Wildcard?: N/A

Size:
Same as Ancestor?: N (smaller)
Within range?: Y
Exception?: N/A

Support:
Same as Ancestor?: Probably?
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Diet:
Same as Ancestor?: N (More food items added, pioneeroots removed)
Transition Rule?: N/A
Reasonable changes (if any)?: Y

Respiration:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Thermoregulation:
Same as Ancestor?: Probably?
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Reproduction:
Same as Ancestor?: Y
Does It Fit Habitat?: Y
Reasonable changes (if any)?: N/A
Other?: N/A

Description:
Length?: Good
Capitalized correctly?: Y
Replace/Split from ancestor?: Y (Split)
Other?: N/A

Status: Approved, unless OviraptorFan wants to make more changes or anyone else has objections.

QUOTE (Hydromancerx @ Jun 29 2021, 07:46 PM)

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Jun 27 2021, 09:05 PM) That literally does not work. Dweller ears are broken and implausible. My take on attempting to explain them is that they are instead "hearing" through vibration sensitive bones in the eye socket with the pinnae acting somewhat like a mosquito's antennae. Low-pitched calls would actually be easy to pick up, coincidentally. What if the eyes worked as a reverse "melon" like in dolphins? Just brainstorming. EDIT: Fix and fixed claws.

That would make them blind because the material used to do that is opaque. Hearing with bones would also be more effective with the small size of their eyes.

Sagan 4's current map is so mountain-dominated that there's a sharp elevation change going down rivers to their estuaries. In real life, this would create canyons. Given how long many of our rivers have existed, one could even argue that Sagan 4 has a Grand Canyon for every one of them.

If this is the case, would it be fair to treat all riparian biomes that cut through moutains as though they include cliffs on either side?

MNIDJM weren't you gonna comment on oofle's submission?