QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Mar 16 2021, 03:23 AM)

So would eating the females be considered insectivory or herbivory?

Herbivory.

Greater Lahn (Gramenovermis major)
Creator: Disgustedorite
Ancestor: Lahn
Habitat: Drake Plains, Drake High Grassland, Drake Chaparral, Drake Rocky, Drake High Desert, Mae Volcanic
Size: Male: 25 cm long; Female: 1.2 meters tall
Diet: Photosynthesis, Detritivore; Males Only: Herbivore (Supershrooms, Sunstalks, Cryobowls, Glaalgaes, Pioneeroots, Marbleflora, Tepoflora, Fuzzweed)
Respiration: Semi-Active (Unidirectional Tracheae)
Thermoregulation: Ectotherm (Basking)
Reproduction: Sexual (Sequential Hermaphrodite, Eggs), Asexual (Parthenogenesis)

The Greater Lahn replaced its ancestor. The only “grass” in its environment, it was able to grow exponentially in height in an arms race with itself to become the tallest, outcompeting its ancestor in the process. It failed to outcompete the related Lahnworm, as the Lahnworm’s mobility meant it could simply get up and move to avoid the Greater Lahn. Its leaves now have chitinous cell walls, allowing them to grow taller without also needing to become thicker; in fact, its leaves are thinner than those of its ancestor, and they branch. Similar to its ancestor, males live as mobile fauna but become immobile plant-like females later in life. Unlike its ancestor, the Greater Lahn very easily crossed rivers by chance dispersal and walking right across fallen trees. It can also be found in the high desert, females living in clumps wherever conditions are right.

The Greater Lahn has lost its bioluminescence, as it cost too much energy to maintain. Males instead mate with any female they come across as long as they have the sperm to do so throughout their spring mating season, leaving the health of any offspring up to luck. The inexplicable behavior of males carrying the eggs has also been lost, as it actually put the eggs in a lot of danger. Instead, females retain the eggs themselves in a subterranean oviduct. Indeed, the entire cloacal opening is underground to protect it from trampling and predation, and as such the male must dig for it. This is done using a retractable shovel-like phallus derived from the skin and upper “beak” of the cloaca, which is absorbed during the transition to female. Females can also produce clonal offspring through parthenogenesis. When eggs hatch, the babies dig their way to the surface and begin their lives as males, but at a little over three years of age they will bury themselves and become female.

Unlike its ancestor, females of the Greater Lahn are completely submerged underground apart from their leaves. This allows them to avoid being trampled to death and makes them far more difficult to pull from the ground and devour. Like their ancestor they use branching root-like limbs to hold them in place and a complex branching network consisting of a root-like structure derived from the tongue and esophagus to collect water and nutrients from the ground. The leg-roots can tangle with those of neighboring individuals, keeping them stable as a group.

When dehydrated, the Greater Lahn’s leaves turn blue-violet and eventually fade to pale pink. This is the result of their blood; as the blue pigment fades, the red color from the iron-based blood underneath begins to show, and when the blood is removed to conserve water, all that is left is the pinkish natural color of the flesh.

I like the dog comparison.

Updated artwork.

The ancestor actually could already do what this one can do, apart from the earthen plaster. Also, clarified the intelligence a bit more--I see this as being far from close to sapience, getting where it's gotten through a different route. (my attempt at explaining the massive mess of a jump that is the ancestor)

For a long time, most general pages have been sweeping, phylum- or class-level things. However, I imagine they probably weren't so sweeping when they were first made.

I've been making general pages that cover small subgroups, both living and extinct, that I feel are either historically notable (like roamers and mirageboks) or that really needed something specific to them (shrogs, which I had to get permission to add early to reduce the imminent risk of misinterpretation in the coming generations). How helpful have they been so far? Are there other small groups that also really need general pages?

Wow. The longest incubation time for any of my submissions is probably Bannertail, which I originally conceptualized in spring 2019 I believe around when I first discovered Sagan 4. Do you think that's second place, or are there things conceptualized before the limbo and posted after that count?

Gorillas actually can ask questions, they just don't do it often. However, I think questions are outside the Bannertail's capabilities. Shrogs in general probably would ask questions if they could.

I think the ecosystem page has already been updated to reflect all local extinctions caused by arguraptors. I also don't think this Shrog is close to being able to cause similar levels of destruction

Scientific names should not have special characters in them. This is actually an official rule for naming species in real life.

Finished art added

As I mentioned previously farming is pretty dangerous when it's combined with intelligence. In Beta, the is a rule that if a species can be mistaken for a person, the description must explain why it is not; I don't know if that rule has been adopted in Alpha, but it may be valuable to include a paragraph on that anyway.

Fun fact: I first discovered Sagan 4 when it was still in limbo, and a Rainbowtail descendant was the first submission idea I ever had! Of course, the original concept was a sophont, because I thought Rainbowtail was meant to be sophont at the time, inventing adobe and all...I think this is a bit more interesting than Rainbowtail with a big stick, though.

Drakeshrog (Lutrasorex drakensis)
Creator: Disgustedorite
Ancestor: Seashrog
Habitat: Drake Boreal, Drake Rocky, Drake Chaparral, Yokto Temperate Riparian, Drake Temperate Woodland
Size: 2 meters long
Diet: Carnivore (Lipped Sauceback, Double-Lipped Sauceback, Desert Gossalizard, Pinyuk, Tree Pinyuk, Dwarf Pinyuk, Loafpick, Loafshell, Lizalagarto, Plains Uktank, Sailmail, Uklunk, Sowshrog), Scavenger, Kleptoparasitic Frugivore (Sowshrog food stores)
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Thermoregulation: Endotherm (Fur)
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Placental, Pouch and Milk)

The Drakeshrog split from its ancestor and moved inland into Drake. There, it encountered and co-evolved with the Bannertail--a social predator without ears. Bannertails initially saw the Drakeshrog as a potential competitor and would combat it as such, but the Drakeshrog’s high intelligence allowed it to gain some rudimentary understanding of Bannertail language and respond to it--something the Bannertails also took notice of. Though the Drakeshrog cannot speak and could not even begin to communicate in the same manner as the deaf bioluminescent Bannertails, their mutual high intelligence allowed some level of understanding to develop between the two species--particularly because one Drakeshrog figured out that its white underbelly reminded the Bannertails of their own warning “call”, leading to it warning them of danger they could not hear by rolling over in exchange for food and defense. The relationship soon developed further, and before long Drakeshrogs were regarded as packmates by the Bannertails and used their superior senses to assist in hunts. The Drakeshrog has also shared its architectural capabilities, assisting the Bannertail in conquering cold montane habitats by constructing insulated nests for the pack. Like its ancestor, the Drakeshrog hunts with spears, these being made from the chitin-wood which supports the native crystal flora; unlike cellulose wood, chitin-wood is stiff and not prone to snapping, making it very useful for taking down large prey.

Compared to its ancestor, the Drakeshrog’s nests are upside-down--instead of half-sphere boats with a deck, they are dome-shaped huts with wooden floors. The entrance is on the side rather than on top, but a hole in the middle of the floor is still present. The middle of the hole has a tall tree trunk placed in it which serves as a central support beam for the roof. In nests the Drakeshrog constructed for itself, the hole is only big enough to fit the central support beam, but in nests it built for the Bannertail pack it lives with the hole is 2 meters wide, half a meter deep, and filled with water--forming a perfectly sized spawning pool for the Bannertails. This portion is built by the Bannertails beforehand, and the Drakeshrog constructs the nest for them around it.

Without any fuzzpalms inland, the Drakeshrog constructs nest walls using crystal flora such as the Towering Grovecrystal, the Baseejie, and the Vesuvianite Tree instead. It does not use ferines due to their trunks being too thick and rough to cut through easily, nor ‘lures because the ones with tall trunks have too unwieldy shapes for construction. The nests are held together and sometimes even completely coated in earthen plaster, which was invented through combining Bannertail adobe construction with Shrog nest-making techniques in a rare example of interspecies cultural exchange. Sometimes the floors of the nests will even have adobe slabs or earthen plaster in place of wood. In forests, branches from flora are sometimes used to disguise or visually break up the shape of the nest. The nests are still kept clean by Cleaner Borverids, which have been spread to the Drakeshrog's entire range. Interactions with the Bannertail have exposed the Drakeshrog to the concept of cleanliness, and as a result waste and rotting food don't build up enough to support a new species of shailnitor to follow the Drakeshrog inland.

The Drakeshrog is even less social than its ancestor, at least when it comes to interactions with its own species. However, it is highly social with the Bannertail. Beyond assisting in hunts and building nests, it will engage in play and social grooming, as well as “babysit” juvenile bannertails. Though its instincts tell it to mate with other shrogs, like in many instances of mixed-species social groups on Earth, it isn’t unheard of for some individual Drakeshrogs to instead be attracted to Bannertails. This can result in odd attempts at interspecies mating, though these generally fail due to their wildly incompatible anatomy, and hybrid offspring cannot be produced due to them being about as closely related as a rat and a frog. Due to having little need to communicate with its own kind and the Bannertail lacking ears to hear it anyway, the Drakeshrog is very quiet and rarely makes a sound except when interacting with its own offspring.

When the Drakeshrog does try to mate with another of its kind, it does so during the fall. It will wander from its Bannertail pack into neutral territory and let out loud mating calls--rather deep and long cries compared to those of its ancestor, allowing it to find potential mates over long distances. Should multiple males encounter the same female, they will wrestle using the spikes on their heads, though the female may still pick the loser if he appears healthier. If a male encounters multiple females, he will attempt to mate with all of them. The process of mating itself, done belly-to-belly to avoid risk of injury from the Drakeshrog’s spikes, is a quick and quiet affair due to the risk of attack from other creatures. The father does not participate in raising his own offspring, but this is not an issue as the mother’s Bannertail pack will assist in raising them instead. Pregnancy lasts longer than it did in its ancestor, at 6 months, though the offspring are still born helpless and mostly naked. Hardly resembling a marsupial joey anymore, baby Drakeshrogs are instead called pups. There are usually 3-6 pups per litter. They only stay inside the pouch for two weeks, rapidly becoming far too large to fit inside. Having a somewhat larger brain than its ancestor, the Drakeshrog takes longer to grow up, reaching full size at 8 years. However, juveniles leave to find a new Bannertail pack to join at the age of 4. Such dispersal Drakeshrogs will find and team up with pairs of young dispersal Bannertails, being integral to the formation of a new pack. Others may join Bannertail packs which have recently lost their shrog or that have grown so large that they need additional shrogs to keep up. Sometimes, one juvenile will stay in their home pack until adulthood and will replace their mother in the Bannertail pack if she dies in the meantime. Cultural ideas such as the construction of tools are spread from mother to offspring, but ideas can also spread indirectly via the Bannertail; the Bannertail is “talkative” and can describe something it saw a Drakeshrog in another pack do, which the Drakeshrog in its own pack will then replicate.

The Drakeshrog has been known to steal food from Sowshrogs, and in fact it will even hunt and eat Sowshrogs themselves with its Bannertail pack despite them both being Shrogs. Some Drakeshrogs have also been known to attempt to mate with Sowshrogs if they cannot find a fellow Drakeshrog to mate with. This is rarely successful, as the Sowshrog will actively try to avoid the Drakeshrog and even attack it. However, unlike aforementioned mating attempts with Bannertails, successful matings between Drakeshrogs and Sowshrogs can and do happen and even produce viable hybrid offspring. Such hybrids typically die of malnutrition, however, due to the parent species having different dietary requirements, and those that don’t may be eaten by predators because they struggle to socialize and may find themselves out alone in the wilderness.

Notably, the Drakeshrog and the related Sowshrog are the first furred shrews to be endemic only to Drake since the Biglian period. Though a Terran mammal could never make such a trip, these shrogs’ respective arrivals here without becoming pelagic swimmers was the inevitable culmination of their ancestors’ advances to the already-advanced boat-nest construction ability which first evolved in the Marine Tamow; this remarkable event was inevitable, and there will likely be others, as there is potential for the arrival of other shrogs or even more basal tamows in the future.

Hilariously, the symbiosis between the Drakeshrog and the Bannertail created an aesthetic so convincingly tribe-like that it fooled the Nauceans, the alien beings which seeded Sagan IV with life. The Nauceans abducted a Bannertail, but as they tried to communicate with it they swiftly learned that it was not even self-aware, let alone sapient. Still, the Bannertail's language was complex enough that the Nauceans were able to ask it questions, from which they learned of the Drakeshrog--which they had previously dismissed as a domesticated pet. They proceeded to abduct a Drakeshrog, which they found to be self-aware, but they struggled to communicate until the Nauceans realized the Drakeshrog did not have a language. Realizing they had been fooled, the Nauceans quietly returned the abducted creatures to their pack and left them alone from then on.

----

I checked with Hydro back in April, the Naucean part is okay

Bannertail (Vexillarca amicitia)
Creator: Disgustedorite
Ancestor: Rainbowtail
Habitat: Drake Boreal, Drake Rocky, Drake Chaparral, Yokto Temperate Riparian, Drake Temperate Woodland
Size: 2.5 meters long
Diet: Adults: Carnivore (Lipped Sauceback, Double-Lipped Sauceback, Desert Gossalizard, Pinyuk, Tree Pinyuk, Dwarf Pinyuk, Loafpick, Loafshell, Lizalagarto, Plains Uktank, Sailmail, Uklunk, Sowshrog); Juveniles: Omnivore (Cloudswarmer larvae, Cryobowl fruit), Planktivore
Respiration: Active (Lungs)
Thermoregulation: Mesotherm
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Frog-like Eggs Laid In Spawning Pools)

The Bannertail replaced its ancestor and, with its previously developed intelligence and social lifestyle, became a prominent social predator comparable to a rather oversized wolf. Though it does not fill its ancestor’s entire range, its ancestor could not live on the beach or plains alone--in fact, at the time of evolution just a single plains population of Rainbowtail still exists, but it will soon go extinct due to there not being enough rain for consistent reproduction. Though smart, the Bannertail is notably not self-aware; it has knowledge and can have cultural ideas, but it doesn’t actually know that it knows or what that means. Its intelligence and cultural development, to the degree that the latter exists, can be thought of as a long game of follow-the-leader, as it struggles to actually invent new things on purpose like a more self-aware creature could. It is named for its unusual fin-like tail, which is banner-like and can produce color patterns of far greater complexity. A flap of skin, called the “shade”, is used to help with visibility by casting a shadow over the bioluminescent banner; this is similar to a strategy used by Terran traffic lights to improve visibility in bright sunlight.

As the unrelated Drakeshrog moved inland, the Bannertail encountered and co-evolved with it, as the Drakeshrog could learn to understand some of the Bannertail’s color-based language and imitate its warning signal. As an intelligent social creature, even though it was the less intelligent of the two, the Bannertail recognized a Drakeshrog’s value to the pack and eventually welcomed it in. As such, the Bannertail and the Drakeshrog are in a symbiotic relationship where a Drakeshrog acts as the Bannertail pack’s ears and architect in exchange for food and protection. Nearly every pack has at least one shrog, as those without one are at a serious disadvantage. Especially large packs may have as many as 3 shrogs. The Drakeshrog’s ability to build insulated and watertight structures proved vital in the Bannertail’s spread into colder montane climates.

One of the main aspects of the relationship with the Drakeshrog that allowed the Bannertail to expand its range was that the nests built by the Drakeshrog held in heat better, preventing spawning pools from freezing in the chillier parts of the mountains. However, the Bannertail still cannot live at especially high elevations due to its lack of insulating integument and because the cold would eventually win out and freeze the spawning pools overnight. The spawning pools are made of adobe. In a rare case of inter-species cultural exchange, the ability to construct adobe was also spread to the Drakeshrog, and was combined with the Drakeshrog’s existing flora-based nest-building techniques to invent earthen plaster, which is very effective at insulating and water-proofing.

Similar to its ancestor, the Bannertail forms packs consisting of a few mating pairs and their young. Sometimes, groups may have even more mating pairs, as many as 15, though such groups are prone to eventual fission. The Bannertail constructs spawning pools of abode and earthen plaster, sometimes with assistance from the more dexterous Drakeshrog. These pools are roughly two meters wide and half a meter deep. Water from rain, snow, and nearby bodies of water is transported to the spawning pools using hollowed cryobowls. Spawning occurs in the spring, when rain and snowmelt provide a good source of water. The aquatic babies feed on microbes, cloudswarmer larvae, cryobowl fruit, and parts of large kills brought to them by the adults. Juveniles gain terrestrial adaptations by summer, and they will stay with the pack and help them hunt until they reach full size. Sometimes adult offspring will stay with the pack, but most will disperse late the following spring.

New packs of Bannertails may be formed by fission, where a large pack with multiple shrogs splits apart, or by dispersers. In instances of dispersal, a young Bannertail will need to seek out a mate (a fellow disperser of the opposite sex) and a dispersal Drakeshrog. A few other young breeding pairs may join the group, creating a founding population already capable of taking on large prey, but only one Drakeshrog will be included in the initial pack. In the mountainous part of its range, sufficient nests must be constructed before winter or else the young pack will freeze to death. There will usually be a single main first-year nest which the whole pack sleeps in, and as time goes on more nests and more spawning pools will be constructed. These can resemble villages, complete with dirt paths leading between different nests worn down by the footsteps of many Bannertails.

Hilariously, the symbiosis between the Drakeshrog and the Bannertail created an aesthetic so convincingly tribe-like that it fooled the Nauceans, the alien beings which seeded Sagan IV with life. The Nauceans abducted a Bannertail, but as they tried to communicate with it they swiftly learned that it was not even self-aware, let alone sapient. Still, the Bannertail's language was complex enough that the Nauceans were able to ask it questions, from which they learned of the Drakeshrog--which they had previously dismissed as a domesticated pet. They proceeded to abduct a Drakeshrog, which they found to be self-aware, but they struggled to communicate until the Nauceans realized the Drakeshrog did not have a language. Realizing they had been fooled, the Nauceans quietly returned the abducted creatures to their pack and left them alone from then on.

----

I checked with Hydro back in like April and the Naucean part is okay.

Yes. Sheather said I could

Can you include a depiction of the "stick-hoe" tool? Or is it just a stick being used as a hoe?

Double-Lipped Sauceback (Secretorostrum bilabrum)
Creator: Disgustedorite
Ancestor: Lipped Sauceback
Habitat: Drake Boreal, Drake Rocky, Drake Chaparral, Yokto Temperate Riparian, Drake Temperate Woodland
Size: 4 meters long
Diet: Herbivore (Vesuvianite Tree)
Respiration: Active (Microlungs)
Thermoregulation: Endotherm (Feathers)
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Eggs)

The Double-Lipped Sauceback split from its ancestor. Being the largest herbivore in most of its range and having no competition for the niche of browser, it was able to grow significantly larger immediately. It has established itself as one of the largest herbivores in Drake, feeding from the newly-evolved crystal trees in its range. Its "sauce" segment is elongated to house a larger gut, as its entire digestive system apart from its mouth and esophagus is contained within that segment.

The Double-Lipped Sauceback is named for the fact that its lip-trunk has split into two very long prehensile lips. These are used to grasp and manipulate branches while feeding, a behaviour similar to some long-nosed mammals on Earth. It mashes up the branches and crystals with its sideways beak-like jaws. It retains pinhole eyestrils and detects danger mainly using its sense of hearing. It does not echolocate at all, unlike its ancestor, and it can only be found awake during the day.

Unlike its ancestor, the Double-Lipped Sauceback’s offspring hatch with their legs already developed. The feathered hatchlings can run minutes after birth and will follow their mother around. Juveniles are much faster than adults and can sprint away from danger, while adults rely mostly on size and strength to fight off predators. The Double-Lipped Sauceback does not move in herds, but it will sometimes be found in groups for social reasons. Similar to its ancestor, it lays and incubates clutches of 3-8 soft-shelled eggs. While the eggs are incubating the parents take turns sitting on them, but after they hatch the father leaves.

Great, now I have to rewrite Drakeshrog's description.

Can you retract this and repost it later (and not named Drakeshrog)? I'm writing up a Shrog by the same name that I've already told you about over dm that's meant to be the first shrew inland on Drake since before the snowball, and it's already nearly done and waiting on prerequisites.

Map added.

Anyway yeah Clayren is back. I'm also currently examining a possible lead on Irinya.

EDIT: Irinya lead was a dead end, it wasn't them.

So in the search for Clayren, some bizarre developments occurred.

So, I have definitely found Clayren and am waiting for him to respond to my messages. Since he's taking a while to do so, however, I decided to snoop around some more. I don't know how I didn't get some of these results in past searches...

- Clayren was one of the first Let's Players ever!?!?!?? (I identified and confirmed his Something Awful account, where he posted let's plays so long ago that they're archived in early "Let's Play masterposts" from when there were so few Let's Plays that this was even remotely possible)
- During one of my googling sessions the personal twitter of minecraft youtuber Dream came up. I know Clayren and Dream aren't the same person--Dream was like, 8 years old when Clayren joined Sagan 4--but they have just enough in common that it's kinda uncanny.

I don't know what to do with these things.

...Discussion is allowed, the table of contents is there so that discussion can happen without burial

I can help with determining which species are actually extinct, since I have a thing set up somewhere among my user page subpages that detects species that are listed as extant but are no longer on the ecosystem page; when removed from biomes that overlap with this, any species that should now be dead will pop up.

I've decided that I accidentally made it accurate, so yeah, keep.