QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

NASA is slow: Alien Life May Be "Weirder" Than Scientists Think

QUOTE (Ichthyostega)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19569845/ Piranhas' secret is out: They're wimps!

QUOTE (clayren)

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but has anyone heard of the Hemiceratoides hieroglyphica? It's a moth in Madagascar that stabs sleeping birds in the eye and then drink their tears. It's really an odd function. Here's a link: http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0410-madagascar.html

QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

Vomeronasal organ Jacobson's Organ The Jacobson's organ also helps some animals perceive other chemical compounds besides just pheromones emitted between species. For instance, snakes find their prey by using their Jacobson's organ. A snake places its tongue on its Jacobson's, or vomeronasal, organ after having its tongue in the air. The snake touches its tongue on the two pits by the Jacobson's organ to allow it to properly sense their prey. The reason snakes have a forked tongue is so that the tongue can touch these pits. The deeper the fork in a snake's tongue, the more the snake uses its Jacobson's organ. Snake sense - how snakes smell, taste, hear, detect body heat from prey, and see

QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

Cane Toads Cannibalize Their Young Attitude Plays Key Role Among Wildlife Bigger Horns Equal Better Genes Caribbean Frogs Started With A Single, Ancient Voyage On A Raft From South America What Did Dinosaurs Hear? Tropical giant penguin discovered Icebergs are 'ecological hotspot' Bone-Crushing Wolves Roamed Alaska During Ice Age Earliest Panda Skull Reveals Bamboo-Eating "Pygmy" Fungi Gobble Radiation to Grow, Study Says Massive Birdlike Dinosaur Unearthed in China Plants Can Recognize, Communicate With Relatives, Studies Find Genes May Influence Language Learning, Study Suggests Why Starling Females Cheat Bees Seem To Benefit From Having Favorite Colors Genes Play An Unexpected Role In Their Own Activation Prey Not Hard-wired To Fear Predators Electric Fish Conduct Electric Duets In Aquatic Courtship Wild Sheep Descended From Single Pair Show Surprising Genetic Diversity Moss Genes Provided Fuse For Plant Life Explosion Understanding Algae That Are Both 'Plant' And 'Animal'

QUOTE (Hydromancerx)

Rust-Breathing Bacteria: Miracle Microbes?

QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

Birds That Sing Together Scare off Invaders T. Rex, Other Big Dinosaurs Could Swim, New Evidence Suggests T. Rex Was Slow-Turning Plodder, Study Suggests "Feathered" Dinosaur Was Bald, Not Bird Ancestor, Controversial Study Says Salamander Tongue Is World's Most Explosive Muscle

QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

'Junk' DNA Source Of Genetic Innovation New Genetic Data Overturn Long-held Theory Of Limb Development Eavesdropping Fringe-lipped Bats Spread Culture Through Sound  It's not so much culture as hunting habits. Bacteria Use Radioactive Uranium To Convert Water Molecules To Useable Energy Methane Devourer Discovered In The Arctic Snottites, Other Biofilms Hasten Cave Formation Moths Mimic Sounds To Survive Color Vision Drove Primates To Develop Red Skin And Hair, Study Finds Scientists Discover New Life In Antarctic Deep Sea Species Thrive When Sexual Dimorphism Broadens Their Niches Sea Snails Break The Law Vomit Flower Power: Can A Taste For Poison Drive Speciation? Steep Oxygen Decline Halted First Land Colonization By Earth's Sea Creatures Why Are There So Many More Species Of Insects? Because Insects Have Been Here Longer Small Furry Mammal Was Capable Of Gliding Flight Possibly Before Birds Solving Darwin's Dilemma: Oxygen May Be The Clue To First Appearance Of Large Animals Virgin Shark Gives Birth Electric Fish on Verge of Evolutionary Split Nature Inspires Design of New Eyes Orangutan study suggests early walking on two legs Spiders Need UV Light to Feel Amorous Naked Trees Dominated Early Forests Becoming Behemoth Edit and repost: Interspecies Sex: Evolution's Hidden Secret?    Clownfish Use "Snappy" Trick to Make Weird Sounds Toxic Frogs Get Their Poison From Mites Bats Have an Aerodynamic Edge Over Birds Chimp Males Cooperate With Kin and Non-Kin Alike New Asian Rodent Found as Food Is "Living Fossil" Heat Triggers Sex Change in Lizards by "Turning Off" Key Gene Reindeer Change Their Eyes for Summer and Winter "Mafia Birds" Make Others Raise Their Young ... Or Else Manatees Have "Long-Distance" Sense of Touch Two-Headed Reptile Fossil From Age of Dinosaurs Found Elephant "Missing Link" Fossil Found, Study Says Ancient Fish Fossil May Rewrite Story of Animal Evolution Fossil Mammal Resembling Dog-Hare Hybrid Found Monkeys Hug to Head Off Conflict Some Lizards Smell Tougher Than Others Killer Kangaroo Had Wolf-Like Fangs ''Bizarre Beasts'' Were Real (Believe It or Not)

QUOTE (clayren)

I wasn't sure where I should put this, but this thread seems like the best place. I found a video that shows the difference between a food-chain on paper, and how one works in real life. This video shows a conflict between a group of lions, a herd of buffalo, and a crocodile. It starts of kinda slow, but picks up eventually (about four minutes in). http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d6d_1179792837 Hopefully this will give some inspiration when making the relationship between organisms and their prey.

QUOTE (Slartibartfast)

I will post any interesting science that might inspire Sagan 4 creatures in here.  Any general discusion about biology can go in here too. Here are the numerous articles already in my "collection." The Basics -- Evolution Gene-centered view of evolution Microevolution  <------ Read this.  Think small changes. Natural Selection Speciation Adaptation Exaptation Preadaptation Maladaptation Acclimation Epigenetics <--- I find the concept that a creatures morphology and behavior can be changed without changing it's DNA, and that these nongenetic traits are passed on, to be intriguing.  Here's an article on the matter: DNA is not Destiny. Alternative biochemistry Non-cellular life Iron-sulfur world theory Monsters Among the Microbes [Dead] Can evolution make things less complicated?  By the way, the answer is DUH! Treasure trove of new marine species found How Aliens Work  7 pages of sweet, simple science. If Life Endures Earth's Coldest, Hottest and Weirdest Places, Can it Survive Mars, Titan or Beyond? The Future is Wild - Discovery The Future is Wild Homepage The Surprising Origin of Venom Revealed Newfound Snake Anti-Venom is Already Inside You Fear of Snakes Drove Pre-Human Evolution Venomous Fish Outnumber Snakes Hemolymph The Rocky Road to Modern Paleontology and Biology Frog that hopped with dinosaurs found Water Bears Radiation-resistant microbe reveals secrets Migrating birds take hundreds of powernaps  It seems so obvious now, doesn't it. Is It Raining Aliens? The Science of Aliens - Museum Exhibit Tetragametic Chimera This Is Your Ancestor Mind-Control Microbe When All Whales Were Killers The Top 12 Biology Stories of 2006 Scientists find dinosaur genome in birds New Mammal Fossil Astounds Scientists Study challenges theory that species evolve faster in tropics Phasmids Study: Dinosaurs' demise didn't spur mammals' evolution Parasite "Brainwashes" Rats Into Craving Cat Urine Plants on other planets may be yellow or red Early Earth Was Purple, Study Suggests Prehistoric Mystery Organism a Humongous Fungus Parasites Evolve from Bad to Good Flowers Evolve to Suit Birds and Bats   Termites Are Actually Social Cockroaches

(click to enlarge)

This is so everyone can make food webs. The template should have everything you need. Make sure you list the biome name to the left of the "Food Web" and then the gen number to the right of "Gen" When drawing lines you should use...

Red = Eats Fauna
Lime = Eats Flora
Yellow = Eats Sulfur
Orange = Eats Iron
Gray = Eats Minerals
Purple = Gets Energy from the Sun
Brown = Eats Dung
Blue = Easts Dead Flora
Indigo = Eats Dead Fauna
White = Eats Eggs
Green = Drinks Sap
Pink = Drinks Blood
Magenta = Nectarvore

Welcome Everyone
This is the main forum for the original Sagan 4 game. As you may know, there are two versions of Sagan 4, Alpha (the original) and Beta (the reboot). This is the new home of Alpha.

Introduction
Sagan 4 is an alien planet ecosystem project originally started by Hydromancerx inspired by Carl Sagan's video. Life on this alien planet started from a single cell organism. It is now populated with many species of flora and fauna all created by artists who love drawing and xenobiology. Members can pick an extant species, and design a possible descendant. If the organism is accepted, you or another member next generation can design their own descendants from this.

We have a Discord, but the main home for the game posts are here. Please check out the Main Game section to further learn details and participate in the game.

Thriving = 30 or More
Healthy = 20 to 29
Vulnerable = 10 to 19
Endangered = 2 to 9
Critical = 0 to 1[/QUOTE]

Note these are the allowed disasters. Things like alien invasion are not allowed.

Global Disasters

Atmospheric Change
Effect: Gas emissions build up and change the atmosphere. This can stunt or speed up growth.
Example(s): None

Cosmic Dust Cloud
Effect: Can lower temperatures and blocks out the sun. Kills off photosynthetic lifeforms.
Example(s): None

Gamma Ray Burst
Effect: Kills off most macro of the life on the surface of the planet.
Example(s): Gen 100

Global Pandemic
Effect: A microbe kills off many diffrent species across the globe.
Example(s): NONE

Global Warming
Effect: Changes the biomes dramatically and kills off species who cannot adapt to the new warmer environment.
Example(s): NONE

Ice Age
Effect: Changes the biomes dramatically and kills off species who cannot adapt to the new colder environment.
Example(s): NONE

Ice Metor / Ice Comet
Effect: Causes sea levels to rise and mass flooding.
Example(s): Gen 14, Gen 125

Large Asteroid / Comet / Meteor Impact
Effect: Kills off many macro of the life on the surface of the planet. Creates large crater.
Example(s): NONE

Solar Flare
Effect: Kills off many macro of the life on the surface of the planet. Causes mass drought and super wildfires.
Example(s): Gen 8

Super Volcano
Effect: Kills off many macro of the life on the surface of the planet and can start an Ice Age.
Example(s): NONE

Regional Disasters

Asteroid / Comet / Meteor Impact
Effect: Kills off many macro of the life within a limited region. Creates small crater.
Example(s): Gen 123

Drought
Effect: Can causes all macro life to die in the region except for those who can live off little water. Can cause super wildfires.
Example(s): Gen 87

Flood
Effect: Can causes all macro life to die in the region except for those who can survive in a flooded environment.
Example(s): Gen 14

Regional Pandemic
Effect: A microbe kills off a specific line of species within a limited region.
Example(s): Gen 68, Gen 81, Gen 95, Gen 104, Gen 105

Super Blizzard
Effect: Can causes all macro life to die in the region except for those who can survive in a very low temperatures environment.
Example(s): NONE

Super Earthquake
Effect: Can cause cave-ins or even super tsunamis.
Example(s): Gen 115

Super Hurricane
Effect: Moves species across the ocean to new biomes.
Example(s): Gen 36, Gen 110

Super Tsunami
Effect: Can cause floods across coastal biomes.
Example(s): NONE

Super Wildfire
Effect: Kills off much of the flora within a region. Only the fire resistant species will survive.
Example(s): NONE

Volcanic Eruption
Effect: Can lower populations and kill off weaker species within the region. Makes volcanic biome.
Example(s): Gen 90, Gen 119

Anipedia = Blue Blood (Copper Based)

Binucleozoa (Crystalzoa) = Red Blood (Iron Based) / Green Sap (Green Chlorophyll)

Binucleozoa (Sagavermes) = Red Blood (Iron Based)

Carpozoa = Red Blood (Iron Based)

Cillognathias = Yellow/Pink (Colbalt Based)

Cleistocorpia = Blue-Green Blood/Sap (Blue-Green Chlorophyll)

Eukaryaviruses = Too Small

Gastroboskia = Brown (Manganese Based)

Kyanozoa = Cyan Sap (Cyan Chlorophyll)

Magneferrubiota = Very Red (Super Iron Based that appears as liquid rust.)

Mancerxa (Konydonta) = Green Blood (Sulfur Based)

Mancerxa (Phytozoa) = Green Blood/Sap (Green Chlorophyll)

Melanophyta = Black Sap (Black Chlorophyll)

Phoenophyta = Purple Sap (Purple Chlorophyll)

Protobia = Too Small

Back when they were making the game Hydro, Oviraptor, Yokto, Krakow Sam and Huggkruka posted 2 species per day for a week and some of us for 2 weeks.

I bet you new people cannot post 2 species per day for a week!

"Assigned Species" is a very old game in Sagan 4. Back in week 2 when there was only a handful of species LadyM would randomly choose species for each of the team members to evolve. For that week we could only evolve from those picked for us. This ment we could evolve from our own decedents we made that week but we could not do any other lineages.

I challenge those who think they are skilled enough to take this challenge. If you take it then I will assign you 1 microbe, 1 flora and 1 fauna. In which you can only evolve from those 3 until the end of the week. Who is up for this very difficult challenge?

This its merging the "species swap" game with "adopt a biome". You basically pick a biome that the other should adopt. And then the person has to make 5 species for the biome the other one picked. Note that if you have never gotten the "Biome Adopter" badge then you will instantly get it if you make all 5 species! Pretty cool eh?

Game Made up by Nergali

Current Rules
1. All members can join.
2. Sign up date ends a week after announcing the mystery species, so join soon.
3. Contestants work on their splits.
4. A week after sign ups is the submission period.
5. All contestants must post their split in typical submission format on this thread.
6. Poll is held, the winner is chosen.
7. The winner gets to chose the organism for the next contest.
8. Repeat.
I recently had a concept for a contest that I proposed to Hydro. With his approval, I am now posting it.

The main premise is this: An organism is chosen, and then the contestants who have signed up for this contest will develop splits for it. Once the due date arrives, these splits are posted on this thread. A poll is then held, and the creator whose split wins get to choose what the next organism will be for the next contest, after which this all begins again.
Contests so far:

1. Dial K for Krugg
2. Night of the Charybdis
3. I Was a Teenage Cave Swarmer
4. Revenge of the Glacial Sauceback from Sagan IV
5. Invasion of the Colonial Trapinout
6. Sagan IV vs. the Gushlych
7. The Boneflora that Wouldn't Die
8. Hallucrastrums from the Deep
9. 20,000 Rojs Under the Sea
10. A Shockscooter to the System
11. Srugeing Rising

Hydro's Swap List

Swap people owe me...

Colddigger
- A Thermoworm Tufted Thermoworm split.

MNIDJM
- A Charyflora descendent.
Swaps I owe people ...

Colddigger
- Unknown ?
- Unknown ?

This is a fun little game you can play with a fellow team member. Rhodix and Hydro are going to be trying it out. If you find a fellow team mate who is willing to play. Then you each choose a species you want evolved. Then the other person evolves the one you picked. This way a new point of view is created.

Rhodix picked the Seadragolden for me and Hydro picked the Armored Trapinfilter for him.

You can choose your own species to have someone to evolve or pick one of your favorites.

Here is a list of all the game, contests and challenges that we have and had here at Sagan 4.

Awards
2008 Sagani Awards
About Badges
2009 Sagani Awards

Challenges
Sagan 4 Challenges
Sagan 4 Challenge Ideas
I bet you can't ...
Kingdom Master!

Contests
Competition Ideas
1 Year Anniversary Contest
Sagan 4 Picture Contest Poll
The diorama contest (without Flisch) Poll
Sentient/Sapient Contest Submissions
Sentient/Sapient Contest Poll
Snapshots of Old Sagan Submissions
Snapshots of Old Sagan Poll
Pictures of new Sagan - Dioramas.
Diorama Contest #3 Submissions
Diorama Contest #3 Poll
LadyM's Creature Creator Contest
Sagan 4 2nd Anniversary - Planning
Sagan 4 2nd Anniversary Contest! Submissions
2nd Anniversary Contest Poll
Diorama Contest #5 Submissions
Diorama Contest #5 - Poll
Insert description, win picture contest
Ramul's Description Contest Poll
Sagan 4 Video Contest #1
Diorama Contest #6 Submissions
Diorama Contest #6 Voting
Diorama Contest #7 Submissions
Diorama Contest #7 Voting
Sagan 4 Adventure Contest
Diorama Contest #8 Submissions
Diorama Contest #8 Voting
Diorama Contest #9 Submissions
Diorama Contest #9 Voting

Trading
Species/Landmark Swap
Species Split
Will Make Your Ideas
Something like a Swap

Complete any 10 of these challenges and get the "Challenge Master" badge. Only newly made species will be excepted unless they were on the past challenge list.

#1 - Save the Rainforest
Your challenge is to evolve a "tree" species in the Tropical Rainforest, Temperate Rainforest or Taiga. To be a "tree" it must be over 2 meters in height.

#2 - Hey Buddy!
Your challenge is to evolve species that depend upon each other and co-evolved. For instance plants and insects where plants produce flowers and the insects like bees pollinate them. Choose any 2 species alive and have them evolve in the same biome together and depend upon each other to live. Note you must post both during the same generation. Please do not choose species that are already doing this. In short they should mutually benefit from each other.

#3 - Islanders
Your challenge is to evolve island species. Choose any isolated island. Remember the species must come from a species already living on the island. Remember to use island phenomenons such as gigantism like the Komodo Dragon or dwarfism such as the Pygmy Mammoths.

#4 - Leap Day
Your challenge is to evolve a species that leaps, hops or jumps around. This is to celebrate "Leap Day" on Feb 29th.

#5 - Easter Eggs
Your challenge is to evolve any species that lays Hard-Shelled Eggs or is an Ovivore (aka. Egg-Eater). You get a bonus if it is both. And a double bonus if the eggs are colorful (with a good reason why). This is to celebrate Easter!

#6 - Curiouser and Curiouser
Your challenge is to evolve two "Alice in Wonderland" themed species. However one must be a a "fauna" and one must be a "flora". These can be anything from A Jabberwocky, singing flowers, cherish cat, mock turtle, or even a mad hatter themed species. Try to be creative and be weird! Good Luck!

#7 - Creatures of the Night
Your challenge is to evolve a species that is nocturnal (is awake during the night). This can be fauna (like bats) or even flora (like flowers that only bloom at night).

#8 - Blast from the Past
Your challenge is to evolve a living species from 100 generations ago or older.

#9 - See No Evil, Hear No Evil
Evolve a macro species that has no eyes and no ears.

#10 - Tool Maker
Evolve a species that can uses tools. This can be as simple as using rocks to open nuts or using twigs to into bug mounds.

#11 - Builder
Evolve a species that builds a shelter such as a beaver lodge, termite mound or woven birds nest. Note that simple hole burrows or leafy nests do not count. They must be difficult to make.

#12 - Master of the Elements
Evolve a species that can swim, fly and walk. (Ex. Duck) Bonus if it can live underground too.

#13 - The Big Leagues
Evolve a species over 10 meters.

#14 - Isolated
Evolve a species who only lives on a specific landmark.

More coming soon ...
People who completed these challenges ...

#1 - Save the Rainforest
- Hydromancerx (Freestanding Herus)

#2 - Hey Buddy!
- Hydromancerx (Lotusworm Shrub, Nectar Batworm)
- Nergali (Symbiofortress Diamiboard, Symbiofortress Rustballs)
- MNIDJM (Cavedron, Cave Rustmold, Clingerpede)

#3 - Islanders
- Hydromancerx (Pakahe)
- Nergali (Xeno Hookmouth Phlyer)

#4 - Leap Day
- Hydromancerx (Leaping Tree Dweller)

#5 - Easter Eggs
- Hydromancerx (Eggulper Gilltail)
- Jeluki (Seacrystal Gilltail)
- Nergali (Bighorn Scylla)

#6 - Curiouser and Curiouser
- Hydromancerx (Hookahshroom, Hookahworm)
- Nergali (Spotted Bandersnatch, Singing Spade-Leaf)
- Somarinoa (Tove, Sundialeaf)
- MNIDJM (Cheshiglut, Jabberwocketter)

#7 - Creatures of the Night
- Nergali (Twilight Bandersnatch, Slender Bandersnatch)

#8 - Blast from the Past
- Colatrinker (Protohydroia Impluviatus)

#9 - See No Evil, Hear No Evil
- Nergali (Stiltwalker, Armorback, Hexfeeder, Hexpudger, Hextower, Jetswimmer, Serak)
- MNIDJM (Spindlerorm)

#10 - Tool Maker
- Nergali (Tripodian, Pygmypodian)

#11 - Builder
- Nergali (Uksor)

#12 - Master of the Elements
NONE

#13 - The Big Leagues
- Nergali (Crimson Leviathan)

#14 - Isolated
- Nergali (Armored Urzong)

Logcrusher (Shinglesaurus oblidicarius)
Creator: Bufforpington
Ancestor: Pebbleback
Habitat: Maineiac Volcanic, Maineiac Temperate Woodland, Maineiac Chapparal, Maineiac Boreal
Size: 2 m Long
Diet: Herbivore (Drooping Orbion, Bristlebranch Treebion, Baebula, Prutabula, Prutarbor, Octovinbion, Maineiac Glasstower, Glassbarrel)
Reproduction: Sexual, Two Genders, Amniotic Eggs

The logcrusher has split from its ancestor. With the evolution of predators on Maineiac island, some pebblebacks began to evolve defenses. One of the first was the re-emergence of its plates. They also became larger, making them available to fewer predators. Some began to become more aggressive, developing sharp beaks and a horn-like protrusion from its skull, which they use to attack smaller predators that are foolish enough to attack it. They no longer graze on low-growing vegetation, but rather eat the leaves of trees. Unable to reach them, they now use their very powerful jaws to gnaw through the trunks of trees and cut them down, sometimes eating the wood in the process. They also feed on the fruit of the prutabula and prutarbor. They also will graze on larger glassflora species. Their destructive tendencies often put them at odds with fruitsnappers, who will openly attack them as soon as they 'realize' the tree their nest is on is being cut down. Fruitsnappers are usually able to chase off individual logcrushers. However, they can do little to a herd, as the herd will strike back, eventually forcing the fruitsnapper to abandon its nest or killing it by crushing the fruitsnapper with their beaks. They have become purple in order for them to blend in with the forests they are commonly found in. logcrushers live in herds consisting of a single dominant male, females, and the females' offspring. When adolescent males reach maturity, they are forced out of the herd. These solitary males will search for other herds and challenge the males of said herd, attempting to take over. Males usually fight to the death, with the victor taking over the herd. Males will fight by biting, headbutting, and clawing. The same could be said when logcrushers fight smaller predators and fruitnsnappers in general. Their mating season normally begins in the summer. Because they now live further inland, they have developed amniotic eggs in a similar manner to the camoback. Females will dig out nests and lay their eggs into them. The eggs incubation period is rather short, due to the logcrusher's nomadic lifestyle. When the eggs hatch, the young are able to stand up and walk quickly. This allows them to keep up with the herd, which will leave as soon as all of the eggs hatch. While they are generally more aggressive than their ancestors, they still tolerate maineiac uktanks, as they allow the logcrushers to detect predators with greater ease. In return, the uktanks get protection from the logcrusher herd.

False Poison Pedesorm (Contegovermis bates)
Creator: Bufforpington
Ancestor: Armored Pedesorm
Habitat: Maineiac High Grassland, Maineiac Volcanic
Size: 5 cm Tall
Diet: Herbivore (Octovinbion, Brieneux, Maineiac Glasstower, Mainestalk, Pilunoroot, Glassbarrel, Pioneeroots, Marbleflora, Glaalgaes, Cryobowls) Frugivore (Prutabula, Prutarbor) Coprophagic, Detritivore, Scavenger
Reproduction: Sexual, Two Genders, Snail-Like Eggs Buried Underground, Very Fast Breeder

The False-Poison pedesorm split from its ancestor. It has developed the ability to dye its shell with pigments it naturally produces, which is excreted with the materials that create its shell. Some of these pedesorms started excreting dye in patterns and colors similar to that of the poison pedesorm, confusing predators into thinking they were actually poison pedesorms. Over the generations, these mutant armored pedesorms began to evolve to look extremely similar to its dangerous cousin, ultimately leading it to becoming the false poison pedesorm. In order to better mimic the poison pedesorm, its body and trunk-claw has become shorter and it developed claws on its tiny hind limbs. It also has darker skin, similar to that of the poison pedesorm. Even the shape of its shell and legs has become similar to the poison pedesorm. However, it still is relatively different, as its trunk-claw is better suited for cutting than digging, and it has far more developed eyes. One of the most striking differences though is its diet. Unlike the poison pedesorm, which only eats detritus and dung, the false poison pedesorm is also an herbivore, like its ancestor.