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QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 6 2022, 09:01 PM)

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 6 2022, 08:57 PM) Why would they board them in the first place? As several species of foi, which make up their diet, would be on the rafts feeding on whatever detritus is there, they would have pretty much no competition for such a resource. Additionally, any natural predators are driven away by the phlyers, who would perceive such creatures like a waxface for example as a threat to themselves and their young. Granted it would still likely be uncommon for foi devourer saucebacks to board the rafts, so much so that they might not be able to establish populations in maineac anyway. The more im thinking about it the more im tempted to remove them from the list.

What about you @colddigger? Do you think Foi-Devourer Saucebacks would be able to make the journey, or even get on the rafts in the first place?

I recall when I made the seashrog and was choosing what fauna to spread, I was careful to only include those that were likely to actually board the nest and not jump off in a panic when it started moving. Which ended up being exactly one creature that wasn't already in a direct relationship with the seashrog's ancestors. I suggest trying to take the same care with what fauna you choose to spread.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 7 2022, 01:26 PM)

I recall when I made the seashrog and was choosing what fauna to spread, I was careful to only include those that were likely to actually board the nest and not jump off in a panic when it started moving. Which ended up being exactly one creature that wasn't already in a direct relationship with the seashrog's ancestors. I suggest trying to take the same care with what fauna you choose to spread.

With that in mind, that sort of leaves only the Icicleback and the Foi-Devourer Sauceback as species that might not be on the rafts (Iceblasters could potentially also be there, but they were actively encouraged to go on the rafts by the phlyers)

Interesting take there.

You do make your points with the Iceblaster being the largest fauna to board, if I'm understanding correctly.

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 5 2022, 11:38 AM)

QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Sep 5 2022, 05:58 AM) Icicleback - While I agree with the concerns of overrunning Maineiac, I somewhat disagree with the idea of it muddling the Beach Cheekhorn surviving. However, this could be countered by them being prey items for the enlargening fauna of Maineiac Ittiz Fee are irrefutably broken even if they are less broken than other extinct ones and it would still be a bit too much of work to try to fix them in this regard when there are other living fee that may/may not need minor tweaking in addition to the metamorph fee's descendants already existing (Charybdis and Charyflora), on top of the Pirate Waxface being morphologically closer to the Foi-Devourer than the Icicleback is to the Cheekhorn (IE, the foi-devourer muddles the Pirate Waxface moreso than the Icicleback does for the Cheekhorn). Furthermore, descendants of existing fee could recreate the iron integration in theory in addition to the osmosis. Slingberries have fine enough diversity Thawgrasses will be taken care of by Mnidjm TMU (If these are in Maineiac when Mnidjm has his group approved, it will provide food for the Icicleback) The Needlevine should be fine, but it needs a single replacement promptly I am a little questioning on the Gemshrub if only because of its asexual reproduction and I may admittedly make a genus group from these that are better suited to cause less trouble that you could probably utilize as well Quilled Slingberry, I will need to reread that one promptly and come up with a response (WILL UPDATE THIS POST WHEN I DO) The Greater Charybdis, I question because TMU, it has stages that cannot be on land at all and its ancestor is similar and alive and well Numflora and Iceblaster I am waffly about because of the Numms genus group being made, and because of how the Iceblaster could theoretically be re-created, but functionally better without it spraying ice water and tusks or spikes that don't get in the way of it eating by using the Tusked Grassblaster Inform me if there is anything else I am missing Regarding the Icicleback, I still checked out the ecosystem pages and there really isnt anything like it on the polar beaches it would dwell in. The closest things that might be competition would be a species of florasnapper who is more generalistic and is much bigger. Plus the polar adaptations of the Icicleback would limit it to this area as the continent warms and if it tried to go somewhere else it would likely fall prey to waxfaces and shrogs when they arrive on the scene. So like i said before, I feel like the Icicleback would be able to fit into the ecosystem without causing too much chaos. I checked through both species of foi and I can't exactly see what makes them broken. Both are relatively simple detritivores (though the carpet foi does supplement its diet with swamp beans). I also look through the sizes of foi alive today, and the Carpet Foi actually is about the same size as several other species of foi alive today, some of which look a bit more complex such as the Featherbelly Foi. Species like the Water Table Foi are pretty similar to the Carpet Foi in bodyshape and lifestyle as well, so saying the Carpet Foi would be unable to function is a bit misleading. The Ittiz Foi is a bit bigger then most living fois, but it is actually still smaller then the Foilug who is actually 5 centimeters long. The Ittiz Foi is arguably less complex than that species and would thus probably still work as a species though to be fair it may have less of a chance than the Carpet Foi. Foi-Devourer Saucebacks are still pretty distinct from the waxfaces in many ways. For one thing the extant waxfaces are predators of organisms much bigger than them, and the waxfaces throughout their history either had fused mandibles or highly mobile ones. There are also features like the internalized sauce and their lack of teeth(aside from the mandibles). As such, there really isn't anything like the Foi-Devourer Sauceback alive in modern times, meaning it would not muddle the waxfaces surviving. Alongside the fact this species would be specialized in eating fois and being restricted to the salt bog, I feel like this species would fit in quite nicely into Maineac without causing problems. Alright, then the Quilled Slingberry stays. Yeah the Needlevine would absolutely need a descendant that replaces it. The Tundra Gemshrub's asexual reproduction would still limit it in terms of diversifying on Maineac and since the orbions were already beginning to diversify by week 23 I imagine these little flora would be forced to remain as specalists of the tundra. Does the Tundra Gemshrub make more sense surviving than the Ruby Cruster though? While the Greater Charybdis young can stay in the water close to the rafts, I can certainly see them not making the journey. I assume I should remove them? Dingus started the Numms genus group in case the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer is rejected, so im not exactly sure what will happen to the genus group if the phlyer IS approved. So Im not exactly sure how to answer this section. The fate of the Iceblaster also lies on what happens here. If the Numflora is though of as not becoming a genus group, however, I would still argue that both it and the Iceblaster make perfect sense for being on the rafts and getting to Maineac without causing much disruption in the ecosystem. You can probably address my argument on why Truteal would not make sense as a nesting ground.

Oh also, here is my response to your comment Cheatsy. Do give your opinions on it!

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 5 2022, 08:38 AM)

QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Sep 5 2022, 05:58 AM) Icicleback - While I agree with the concerns of overrunning Maineiac, I somewhat disagree with the idea of it muddling the Beach Cheekhorn surviving. However, this could be countered by them being prey items for the enlargening fauna of Maineiac Ittiz Fee are irrefutably broken even if they are less broken than other extinct ones and it would still be a bit too much of work to try to fix them in this regard when there are other living fee that may/may not need minor tweaking in addition to the metamorph fee's descendants already existing (Charybdis and Charyflora), on top of the Pirate Waxface being morphologically closer to the Foi-Devourer than the Icicleback is to the Cheekhorn (IE, the foi-devourer muddles the Pirate Waxface moreso than the Icicleback does for the Cheekhorn). Furthermore, descendants of existing fee could recreate the iron integration in theory in addition to the osmosis. Slingberries have fine enough diversity Thawgrasses will be taken care of by Mnidjm TMU (If these are in Maineiac when Mnidjm has his group approved, it will provide food for the Icicleback) The Needlevine should be fine, but it needs a single replacement promptly I am a little questioning on the Gemshrub if only because of its asexual reproduction and I may admittedly make a genus group from these that are better suited to cause less trouble that you could probably utilize as well Quilled Slingberry, I will need to reread that one promptly and come up with a response (WILL UPDATE THIS POST WHEN I DO) The Greater Charybdis, I question because TMU, it has stages that cannot be on land at all and its ancestor is similar and alive and well Numflora and Iceblaster I am waffly about because of the Numms genus group being made, and because of how the Iceblaster could theoretically be re-created, but functionally better without it spraying ice water and tusks or spikes that don't get in the way of it eating by using the Tusked Grassblaster Inform me if there is anything else I am missing Regarding the Icicleback, I still checked out the ecosystem pages and there really isnt anything like it on the polar beaches it would dwell in. The closest things that might be competition would be a species of florasnapper who is more generalistic and is much bigger. Plus the polar adaptations of the Icicleback would limit it to this area as the continent warms and if it tried to go somewhere else it would likely fall prey to waxfaces and shrogs when they arrive on the scene. So like i said before, I feel like the Icicleback would be able to fit into the ecosystem without causing too much chaos. I checked through both species of foi and I can't exactly see what makes them broken. Both are relatively simple detritivores (though the carpet foi does supplement its diet with swamp beans). I also look through the sizes of foi alive today, and the Carpet Foi actually is about the same size as several other species of foi alive today, some of which look a bit more complex such as the Featherbelly Foi. Species like the Water Table Foi are pretty similar to the Carpet Foi in bodyshape and lifestyle as well, so saying the Carpet Foi would be unable to function is a bit misleading. The Ittiz Foi is a bit bigger then most living fois, but it is actually still smaller then the Foilug who is actually 5 centimeters long. The Ittiz Foi is arguably less complex than that species and would thus probably still work as a species though to be fair it may have less of a chance than the Carpet Foi. Foi-Devourer Saucebacks are still pretty distinct from the waxfaces in many ways. For one thing the extant waxfaces are predators of organisms much bigger than them, and the waxfaces throughout their history either had fused mandibles or highly mobile ones. There are also features like the internalized sauce and their lack of teeth(aside from the mandibles). As such, there really isn't anything like the Foi-Devourer Sauceback alive in modern times, meaning it would not muddle the waxfaces surviving. Alongside the fact this species would be specialized in eating fois and being restricted to the salt bog, I feel like this species would fit in quite nicely into Maineac without causing problems. Alright, then the Quilled Slingberry stays. Yeah the Needlevine would absolutely need a descendant that replaces it. The Tundra Gemshrub's asexual reproduction would still limit it in terms of diversifying on Maineac and since the orbions were already beginning to diversify by week 23 I imagine these little flora would be forced to remain as specalists of the tundra. Does the Tundra Gemshrub make more sense surviving than the Ruby Cruster though? While the Greater Charybdis young can stay in the water close to the rafts, I can certainly see them not making the journey. I assume I should remove them? Dingus started the Numms genus group in case the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer is rejected, so im not exactly sure what will happen to the genus group if the phlyer IS approved. So Im not exactly sure how to answer this section. The fate of the Iceblaster also lies on what happens here. If the Numflora is though of as not becoming a genus group, however, I would still argue that both it and the Iceblaster make perfect sense for being on the rafts and getting to Maineac without causing much disruption in the ecosystem. You can probably address my argument on why Truteal would not make sense as a nesting ground.

I would suggest removing the greater charybdis, the gemshrub I might actually make into a genus group, the Numflora and Iceblaster should admittedly be fine, I think we already discussed everything else well enough.

After some thinking, im thinking about removing the icicleback and keeping the foi-devourer sauceback.mute reasons being that the sauceback already has semi aquatic tendencies. Plus the high abundance of prey on the rafts and the lack of predators means they would be further tempted onto the rafts than the fully terrestrial iciclebacks who have dense fur. What do you guys think of this?

Also the greater charybdis has been removed from the list.

I disagree. A wading animal is not a swimming animal. The sauceback would still jump right off once that thing starts moving if it boards it at all, which I think it would only do if it was firmly stuck close to where it wades.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 8 2022, 10:22 AM)

I disagree. A wading animal is not a swimming animal. The sauceback would still jump right off once that thing starts moving if it boards it at all, which I think it would only do if it was firmly stuck close to where it wades.

So I should remove both then?

I would personally agree on removing both of them, all things considered.

Alright, I have removed them both and modified the description, specifically the bits relating to herbivores and carnivores since the numbers of what was spread went down by alot. I think that means we have just covered every single organism that was intially on the list of what was spread. Think the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer is good to go then guys?

Here is a list of all the species spread by the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer and its "super rafts". So yall can look it over one more time and give any final comments on the stuff spread.

Tundra Gemshrub is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Numflora is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Drakolantern is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Needlevine is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Scraggly Swaberry is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Quilled Slingberry is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Ugly Woodenberry is spread into Maineiac Polar Beach and Nergali Polar Beach.
Curdledberry is spread into the Maineiac Polar Riparian.
Amphibious Droopgea is spread into the Maineiac Salt Bog.

Nomnom is first spread to Nergali Polar Beach, then spreads to Maineiac Polar Beach through their eggs and young surviving on the rafts.
Iceblaster is first spread to Nergali Polar Beach, then spreads to Maineiac Polar Beach by riding on the rafts.

Divedove is spread into Maineiac Polar River and Maineiac Polar Riparian by riding on the rafts.

Carpet Foi is spread into the Maineiac Salt Bog by riding on the rafts.
Ittiz Foi is spread into Maineiac Salt Bog and Maineiac Polar River by riding on the rafts.

This post has been edited by OviraptorFan: Sep 9 2022, 07:30 PM

I'm not so sure about the iceblaster because it comes off as a heavily-built creature that would prefer not to approach water, let alone board a raft.

I have a hard time imagining the Polar Thaworm successfully boarding a raft, or staying on.

Carpet Foi's feeding method does not sound conductive to riding the rafts. If the Ittiz Foi retains it, it might not fare much better.

Feces Shellworm is a burrower and I have a hard time imagining it boarding the rafts or surviving on them.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 9 2022, 12:49 AM)

I'm not so sure about the iceblaster because it comes off as a heavily-built creature that would prefer not to approach water, let alone board a raft. I have a hard time imagining the Polar Thaworm successfully boarding a raft, or staying on. Carpet Foi's feeding method does not sound conductive to riding the rafts. If the Ittiz Foi retains it, it might not fare much better. Feces Shellworm is a burrower and I have a hard time imagining it boarding the rafts or surviving on them.

The iceblasters are being actively lured onto the rafts though, plus I wouldn’t be surprised if the phlyers snatched up youngsters to bring them onto the rafts. Plus the fact the phlyers are actively seeking out the iceblasters in order to have them on the rafts probably favors the plents being on the rafts compared to stuff like the icicleback who would have just been ignored by the phlyers and only accidental travelers.

You raise a potential point, I might thus remove the Thaworm.

What do you mean by that? If they were sitting on some flora they could be accidentally carried to the rafts as phlyers gather materials for the rafts. Plus if they mostly sit in place and feed, then they would be less likely to be knocked off.

Hm, the shellworm can probably burrow into the foliage and feed on the dung and other detritus left by these phlyers. As for how they got onto the rafts, it’s probably a few individuals that got washed out to sea by a storm and managed to come across these rafts and established themselves. What do the rest of you think though?

If we're getting into storms and being blown off course that's sweepstakes dispersal and shouldn't be used.

Swamp beans are fauna. Those foi are gonna get tossed and turned away from them in a single wave and die.

I'm personally able to understand iceblasters making it, but only getting one descendant.

Thaworms will probably have to go.

Shellworms are manageable.