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I like it.

The only thing in the description that I'm wondering about is

"The copper that it absorbs is concentrated at the top of the cell, allowing it to absorb sulfur more easily."

It looks like the copper is being converted to a metallic form out of the solution, so it's experiencing reduction, gaining electrons, and then I assume getting stuffed into an anaerobic environment between two bilipid layers.

I wonder if this reduction process could be involved with sulfur to free hydrogen ions, or something of that nature.

Sounds like a messy rabbit hole that's unnecessary to go down as opposed to a more general statement. Which I cannot think of at the moment.

Maybe something like the Ferrotine uses?

“There are few other differences between the ferrotine and their ancestor, there coloration has changed some and due to the iron rich biome it now lives in the ferrotine has a "cell wall" which actually is just a way to store the iron so they do not overdose on it.

I figure the ancestor, Copperhead, did it the same way

“Unlike it’s ancestor, which stored excess copper across its cell wall, which hindered its ability to absorb sulfur, it concentrates it at the top of the cell.”.

This post has been edited by HethrJarrod: Sep 18 2022, 08:16 AM

The first sentence reads somewhat awkwardly for me.

Regarding your comparison to the Ferrotine,

Could you say something like that, referencing that other species, in the description maybe?

As it is, the alone statement does not have much meat to it nor gives much real explanation. The hindering aspect that is, could you elaborate a little.

QUOTE (colddigger @ Nov 3 2022, 12:17 AM)

The first sentence reads somewhat awkwardly for me. Regarding your comparison to the Ferrotine, Could you say something like that, referencing that other species, in the description maybe? As it is, the alone statement does not have much meat to it nor gives much real explanation. The hindering aspect that is, could you elaborate a little.

Edited. Made reference to the Ferrotine in the description.

@Coolsteph, do you have any comments on this?

isn't the sulfur used for chemosynthesis captured from the water itself, making the copper top still block it from getting any?

“it at the top of the cell.”
The “it” is misplaced.
“Rock layer” I recommend adding a comma after this.
Otherwise, so far as I can tell by what I know about chemosynthetic bacteria, it seems sound.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Jan 30 2023, 01:11 PM)

Otherwise, so far as I can tell by what I know about chemosynthetic bacteria, it seems sound.

Actually, as alluded to above,

"Like the Ferrotine, the ancestor of the Coppertop, the Copperhead Octothermia, stored excess metal across its entire cell wall. In the case of the Ferrotine it stored excess iron, but in the case of the Copperhead Octothermia, it stored copper. This hindered their ability to absorb nutrients. The Coppertop no longer has this issue, concentrating excess copper it at the top of the cell."

The entire reasoning for its namesake adaptation is just completely incorrect, as the sulfur it needs to perform chemosynthesis is in the water, not in the rock, so it should have just as much trouble getting it as its ancestor.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Jan 30 2023, 02:16 PM)

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Jan 30 2023, 01:11 PM) Otherwise, so far as I can tell by what I know about chemosynthetic bacteria, it seems sound. Actually, as alluded to above, "Like the Ferrotine, the ancestor of the Coppertop, the Copperhead Octothermia, stored excess metal across its entire cell wall. In the case of the Ferrotine it stored excess iron, but in the case of the Copperhead Octothermia, it stored copper. This hindered their ability to absorb nutrients. The Coppertop no longer has this issue, concentrating excess copper it at the top of the cell." The entire reasoning for its namesake adaptation is just completely incorrect, as the sulfur it needs to perform chemosynthesis is in the water, not in the rock, so it should have just as much trouble getting it as its ancestor.

the ferrotine never really mentioned it having issues, so I was just assuming a problem. Got rid of the part calling out the problem, so it should be better now.


@Coolsteph applying your suggestions as well

HethrJarrod, please don't "@" me unless something urgently needs my attention. I've accepted it lately because of the need to finish the Generation, but it needs to be done with proper cause. "@s" are pretty pushy when I already have an auto-checker set for the forum. I've only used "@" for new members in case they haven't set up checking habits (or auto-checkers) yet.

rewrote the description to make it easier to read.

Because of the new Microbe Diet rule (https://sagan4.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=1&st=15), you’ll have to specify where it gets its carbon from. It can’t be made purely of sulfur and copper, after all. The easiest solution is for it to get carbon by fixing carbon dioxide from the surrounding water, and to “breathe” (respire from) sulfur and copper, rather than “eat” it. I suggest looking at Acidithiobacillus thiooxidans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidithiobacillus_thiooxidans). This species of sulfur-breathing bacteria, while not ecologically equivalent to the Coppertop, is a particularly well-studied sulfur-breather.
This may also provide clarity:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/...30129080624.htm

“Next, the colony will concentrate on”: This suggests intentionality, which is a lot to suppose from a colony of microbes. You could use quorum sensing, though. I doubt it could open up new hydrothermal vents entirely, although perhaps it might be able to expand the cracks in the seafloor.

There’s an extra comma in “Wide” in the size line. The second part of the scientific name should not be capitalized.

I recommend cleaning up at least most of the smudges in the art.

I didn't know we were switching up respiration and diet on microbes

QUOTE (colddigger @ Feb 5 2023, 03:08 AM)

I didn't know we were switching up respiration and diet on microbes

Technically, it might not be necessary to make it respire sulfur and copper. Sulfur and copper could be included as particular nutrients it needs in very high levels, alongside using a source of carbon. However, given the particular environment it lives in is devoid of oxygen, it makes sense it would have adaptations to "breathe" something else, and breathing sulfur and copper seems parsimonious.

I just recall OP asking about that on the discord, and I'm not sure that they really got a direct answer, people pretty much just said well they're microbes so kind of breaks down at that point. I myself included. So if we're going to go down the route of lithovores breathing the minerals that they consume, in the situations where that was the apparent case, then that makes sense.