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QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Nov 2 2021, 03:51 PM)

If there's an interior pit from the flesh folding inward, the best word is "infolding" or "introversion". it might help to describe the tongue as a hydraulic organ using blood, or perhaps likening it to a flamingo tongue. Showing the tongue mid-way through contraction could also help. As it is, it looks like a cut-away of multiple layers of the tongue, with the bigger tongue being on a separate layer. In any case, I'm not even sure this could evolve in one step from its ancestor, because tongue physiology is unclear in its lineage. If it can't, re-writing it so its tongue is spiky and hydrostatic like a flamingo tongue seems fairly plausible.

How about now?

Note: I could also do the opposite image wise:


and use the side view for the death of George the vermees (tongue-trap image)

It's unnerving to give a name to a generic Vermee just to have it devoured alive.
The image is certainly better, although the head is rather large. It's not impermissible, as some real-life animals do have similarly large heads. It just looks odd.
I'll have to see that tongue-trap image to evaluate it.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Nov 3 2021, 04:42 AM)

It's unnerving to give a name to a generic Vermee just to have it devoured alive. The image is certainly better, although the head is rather large. It's not impermissible, as some real-life animals do have similarly large heads. It just looks odd. I'll have to see that tongue-trap image to evaluate it.

I've updated the post.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Nov 3 2021, 04:42 AM)

It's unnerving to give a name to a generic Vermee just to have it devoured alive. The image is certainly better, although the head is rather large. It's not impermissible, as some real-life animals do have similarly large heads. It just looks odd. I'll have to see that tongue-trap image to evaluate it.

I've updated the initial post.

Regarding the head size, I can fix it if it's needed, but I'll just be straightforward and say I have trouble imagining many of those smaller head gulpers rolling their huge tongues into their tiny mouths, even with the aid of a throat pouch, not to mention giving live birth while accounting for the tongue.... For that matter what happens to a plent with a blind gut that gets constipated?

For the love of plents, please let me give them a larger mouth.

Update:
Fixed the tongue to head proportions, fixed the ears & updated them in the description.. and yes, I eventually noticed that I missed the Capitalized P on phractiglosus comment and fixed that.

I believe at this point I covered every problem mentioned on both here & discord by @Coolsteph @Nergali @Oviraptor & @Disgustedorite

QUOTE (Papainmanis @ Nov 2 2021, 12:55 AM)

Blowtongue (Cestrolingua phractiglosus) Creator: Papainmanis Ancestor: Bashercoat Habitat: Bumpy Polar Coast, Drake Polar Beach, Drake Polar Scrub Size: 80cm long (Adult) Support: Endoskeleton (Jointed Wood) Diet: Carnivore (Vermees, Frabukis, Krugg, Leafcutter Krugg, Egg Krugg, Drake Uktank (young), Pudgy Ketter, Rolling Flune, Drakescooter) Respiration:  Active (Lungs) Thermoregulation: Endotherm (Cotton) Reproduction: Sexual (Live Birth, Two Genders) Replacing their ancestors in their respective territory starting to expand inland, the blowtongue has evolved to capture small prey by expanding and contracting the end of its cuticle-covered tongue into a caved-in inversion at its end over a hollowed up hydrostatic muscle at the edge of the tongue, quickly bashing hooking and smashing into a pulp whatever got captured in their tongue-trap. The evolution of it's tongue trap has affected reproductive behavior, rather than transferring gametes mouth to mouth, males will catch a tasty treat in their tongue-traps, roll in their tongues to cover it with gametes and offer it to the female as a nuptial gift. Females might have many male pursuers offering such nuptial gifts and trying to increase the chance that her brood will be theirs, while successful males will pursue many females to increase their chances. Males will mostly compete by trying to get better nuptial gifts, but when that doesn't work they will also try to compete directly. Rather than head bashing, conflicts between competing males will be resolved by bashing each other tongue to tongue, trying to inflict a strong enough hit to get the competition to release the nuptial gift from their rivals grip. As skullcaps are no longer a significant part of the competition for mates, they have flattened and decreased in size. In spring time, as the coats are shed and the brooding period starts, no one is particularly certain who's the father, with successful females sharing the bounty of many males and males splitting their support between the females that accepted their mating gifts. Males during this time will have a peaceful and cooperative demeanor, as it's safe to assume that at least some of the other potential fathers around are helping to feed their own brood. The fangs, no longer taking part of the killing or biting, have specialized in cleaning their tongue, shortening and facing towards each other over the tongue to help pull chunks stuck in their tongue cuticles, collecting leftovers and helping prevent infections in their nuptial gifts from rotten food. Their hearing has evolved to accomedate their specialized diet, splitting their tempanic membrane into a medium frequency lower-section used to hear each other and nevigate the environment in the larger scale, and a low pitch high frequency upper section used to hear the sounds and movements of animals much smaller then itself. The area around the ears has curved inwards to focus that sound, not unlike the owl of another time and place.

I'm still not sure if tongue-traps are physiologically possible with their physiology as it exists. Tongue fingers (like its ancestor's) rapidly, hydraulically snapping inward with the help of flamingo tongue-esque hydraulic tissue, and having multiple cellulose prickles on the palm or in a hollow in the palm that stabs, impale or crushes small prey seems it would be easier to evolve in one step, and a descendant could adapt the structure to be something like the structure proposed.
I'm not sure if a hydrostatic muscle can even work if hollowed out.
"their tongue" Its tongue.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Nov 4 2021, 12:40 AM)

I'm still not sure if tongue-traps are physiologically possible with their physiology as it exists. Tongue fingers (like its ancestor's) rapidly, hydraulically snapping inward with the help of flamingo tongue-esque hydraulic tissue, and having multiple cellulose prickles on the palm or in a hollow in the palm that stabs, impale or crushes small prey seems it would be easier to evolve in one step, and a descendant could adapt the structure to be something like the structure proposed. I'm not sure if a hydrostatic muscle can even work if hollowed out. "their tongue" Its tongue.

It's just a hollowed expansion of the hard outer layer at the end while reducing the fingers to act as a valve for the blood flow. There would be a near instant feedback loop in which allowing the end cuticles to flex against each other would be better at capturing smaller prey items, all of which were already in the ancestor's diet.

How much evolution is allowed per generation is somewhat subjective and intuition dependent, and I am obviously biased here, but to me this feels like a lot less then we've done to some crops & livestock within a few millennia. I.E. If this is unrealistic then bananas are a lie and corn is an insane thoughtless conspiracy coming undone (both presumably invented by birds pretending to not exist).

Well I’ve got nothing major left to object to. Coolsteph this pass in your book?

Ehh....I have a feeling something is off, but it would seem no one is well-versed enough in hydrostatics to say otherwise. The standard amount of time per Generations is a lot, and they did slightly elaborate on the valves as being derived from the fingers. I guess this can be a problem the staff eight years from now can have headaches over. Unless there's any more objections, which I doubt there will be, I suppose it can proceed.

@Papainmanis Welcome to the Sagan 4 Alpha Team! Please repost your submission in the Organism Submission subforum.

@SpeedTowel Welcome to the Sagan 4 Alpha Team! Please repost your submission in the Organism Submission subforum.

QUOTE (MNIDJM @ Nov 5 2021, 09:03 PM)

@SpeedTowel Welcome to the Sagan 4 Alpha Team! Please repost your submission in the Organism Submission subforum.

Thank you!
Here's the post

edited (abandoned)

That is a very short description.

That is not how the combustion worked in the ancestor. The hydrogen chamber in this case would also actually be exactly as heavy as water, due to the presence of oxygen, and it is activated by a lens. This lineage lost all lenses except for one used in combustion.

I don't think the thorns can randomly become seeds.

If you're trying to make a different reproductive method, it may help to research both how reproduction worked in its ancestors and how various plants launch seeds.