All first time submissions must be made in this thread. But before you post, please make sure you read THE RULES for posting. It is also recommended that you "lurk" to learn what is expected in a submission.
Additionally, please make sure your drawings are colored. If you do not color your drawing, no one will be able to accurately evolve anything from it.
Once you have submitted your organism, a Sagan Moderator will review your submission and tell you if have passed within few days. If you pass, you may start making as many species as you want. If not we will tell you what you need to improve upon. There is no limit to how many times you can apply. Once you are a team member you are always one. You just may be put on inactive status until you return again, but no need to reapply.
We look forward to your submissions!
Additionally, please make sure your drawings are colored. If you do not color your drawing, no one will be able to accurately evolve anything from it.
Once you have submitted your organism, a Sagan Moderator will review your submission and tell you if have passed within few days. If you pass, you may start making as many species as you want. If not we will tell you what you need to improve upon. There is no limit to how many times you can apply. Once you are a team member you are always one. You just may be put on inactive status until you return again, but no need to reapply.
We look forward to your submissions!
Edit:
Ignore this, reapplied with these: https://sagan4.jcink.net/index.php?showtopi...findpost&p=6739
Lobestar (Duospina aculimanus)
Creator: Papainmanis
Ancestor: Fangbunny
Habitat: Krakow Tropical Watershed, Mancerx Tropical Watershed, Hydro-Flisch Tropical Watershed; Adults: Krakow Tropical Beach, Hydro Tropical Beach, Mancerx Riparian; Larvae: Hydro-Krakow Tropical Coast, Mancerx Tropical River
Size: 12cm long (Adult), 2cm (Larva)
Support: Duel spined endoskeleton with hydraulic muscles
Diet: Adult: Carnivore (Rainbun, Corpse Spardi, Spardiflies, Warmbuns, Rainbun, Toothgrip Bristlebunny, Bouffant Knightworm, Knightworm, Shed Knightworm, Rolyknights, Darwinian Crestgills, Ferrofilament), Larva: Carnivore ((Rainbun, Warmbuns, Bristlebunnies, Micropredestar, Photolaks)
Respiration: Semi-active Bernoulli's principle powered through-lungs
Thermoregulation: Ectotherm
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Broadcast-Spawning into water, Eggs)
The Lobestar is likely to have replaced its ancestor, expanding their territory within the niche of a mid-range opportunistic carnivore. As skeletal support and semi-active respiration allowed it to grow larger, while many of its prey items did not, the 2nd pair of its counter arm claws has grown out to meet the first pair in a pincer action, similar to the lobster claws of another time and place, from which the lobestar gets its name, while specialized mucus glands similar to the ones used to protect its lungs aid in forming a sticky substrate that holds onto even smaller food items. Having to both find prey and fend off predators, their eyes have moved forward along their counter arms and have stretched in the same direction, gaining a long slanted look, allowing them to leverage the counter arm's flexible movement and act as vertical slit pupils when facing forward and ambushing potential prey, or as horizontally wide scanning pupil when facing sideways and evading potential predators, as common with cats and goats respectively, of another time and place. Closing their eyes is a tense reaction, using an hydraulic muscle that expands in front of the eye to push it inwards and protect it, usually in response to prey that fights back. While sleeping they will prefer to cross their arms to cover their eyes, an action which also allows them to use their mucus to keep their eyes clean.
Lifecycle:
By evolving an adolescent "leg recount", a genetic solution to an all-too common condition in its ancestor in which the growth of additional leg segments has led to under developed armpit gonads, it was able to embrace a more complete metamorphosis, allowing it to better navigate both it's amphibious larvae stage and it's land-bound adult stage.
The newly hatched larva will continue to grow additional leg segments after hatching from a set of underdeveloped segments dividing at its very end, angulating along shores and riverbeds, feeding on whatever they can fit in their mouths and taking in oxygen through its entire skin but mainly the hanging "foot" on their underside. When they are ready, they will seek out riverside trees or a coastal rocks on which to anchor their tail onto during their pupa stage.
As a pupa, their skin expands over their legs, internalizing and connecting them into pair of lateral spines in which each claw is molded to connect with the one in front of it and grow around the hydrostatic leg sacks, turning them into hydraulic muscle, while other claws grow around the torso into dorsal & ventral ribs. Externally their embryonic lateral lines restart, growing new legs around fully developed gonads. The 1st 3rd and 5th hearts merge with their 2nd 4th and 6th hearts, forming three two-chambered hearts connected along a central blood cord, containing both arteries and veins. The central nerve cord extends directly above and around the central blood cord like a net with long gaps, letting the former oxygenate the later and allowing both systems to use the same pathways, as well as maximizing protection to both being in the inner most part of the body. In turn the main nerve clusters forms a ring shape around the blood cord, maximizing blood flow to the brains and ganglia. The specialized oxygen absorption tissue from their once ancestral foot expands sideways on each segments and roll up over the ventral ribs, forming continuous tubes tail to forelimb.
When they are done, they wil stretch out their legs to fill their skin, gaining a grip on the ground they will raise their tail, wait a bit and then start vigorously whipping their tails again and again.
As they do so they start triggering Bernoulli's principle, the faster moving air along the raised or quick-whipping tail creates a low pressure pocket at the openings at the end of the tail, sucking out the air from the lung tubes which in turn sucks in air from the side slits.
The smells of their environment will be carried with the airflow over the caudanasum, or nose-tail, a crescent shaped cluster of chemical receptors and nerve cells that detects the smells from each tail nostrils and from over the tip of the organ, using 3 point value to assign each smell a vector, arousing the Posterior ganglia to paint a rich olfactory images with which to wake up the main cerebrum at the center of their distributed Y shaped nervous system, which will in turn wake up the biceptial ganglia behind each eye to stretch their counter arms and look around, a situation that arose as main sensory organs on opposite ends do not land themselves to natural cephalization. Once awake, all 4 newly developed thinking organs ready to work together and learn with trial and many many errors what every newborn wants to know: what can they eat and how can they get it.
While they don't exactly hear in terms of discerning the details of sound waves, they can sense strong vibrations like steps and roars as well as wind and thunder. The later they find particularly exciting, as the time before a monsoon or stormy weather can only mean one thing. They will release strong pheramones and seek each other out, and not as food, gathering around water and spawn their gametes out of their tails, careful to not get into the water as an internal fertilization can be fatal, letting the wind spread theirs eggs wherever they may land, key to their wide distribution.
This post has been edited by Jarlaxle: Feb 13 2023, 12:15 PM
Ignore this, reapplied with these: https://sagan4.jcink.net/index.php?showtopi...findpost&p=6739
Lobestar (Duospina aculimanus)
Creator: Papainmanis
Ancestor: Fangbunny
Habitat: Krakow Tropical Watershed, Mancerx Tropical Watershed, Hydro-Flisch Tropical Watershed; Adults: Krakow Tropical Beach, Hydro Tropical Beach, Mancerx Riparian; Larvae: Hydro-Krakow Tropical Coast, Mancerx Tropical River
Size: 12cm long (Adult), 2cm (Larva)
Support: Duel spined endoskeleton with hydraulic muscles
Diet: Adult: Carnivore (Rainbun, Corpse Spardi, Spardiflies, Warmbuns, Rainbun, Toothgrip Bristlebunny, Bouffant Knightworm, Knightworm, Shed Knightworm, Rolyknights, Darwinian Crestgills, Ferrofilament), Larva: Carnivore ((Rainbun, Warmbuns, Bristlebunnies, Micropredestar, Photolaks)
Respiration: Semi-active Bernoulli's principle powered through-lungs
Thermoregulation: Ectotherm
Reproduction: Sexual (Male and Female, Broadcast-Spawning into water, Eggs)
The Lobestar is likely to have replaced its ancestor, expanding their territory within the niche of a mid-range opportunistic carnivore. As skeletal support and semi-active respiration allowed it to grow larger, while many of its prey items did not, the 2nd pair of its counter arm claws has grown out to meet the first pair in a pincer action, similar to the lobster claws of another time and place, from which the lobestar gets its name, while specialized mucus glands similar to the ones used to protect its lungs aid in forming a sticky substrate that holds onto even smaller food items. Having to both find prey and fend off predators, their eyes have moved forward along their counter arms and have stretched in the same direction, gaining a long slanted look, allowing them to leverage the counter arm's flexible movement and act as vertical slit pupils when facing forward and ambushing potential prey, or as horizontally wide scanning pupil when facing sideways and evading potential predators, as common with cats and goats respectively, of another time and place. Closing their eyes is a tense reaction, using an hydraulic muscle that expands in front of the eye to push it inwards and protect it, usually in response to prey that fights back. While sleeping they will prefer to cross their arms to cover their eyes, an action which also allows them to use their mucus to keep their eyes clean.
Lifecycle:
By evolving an adolescent "leg recount", a genetic solution to an all-too common condition in its ancestor in which the growth of additional leg segments has led to under developed armpit gonads, it was able to embrace a more complete metamorphosis, allowing it to better navigate both it's amphibious larvae stage and it's land-bound adult stage.
The newly hatched larva will continue to grow additional leg segments after hatching from a set of underdeveloped segments dividing at its very end, angulating along shores and riverbeds, feeding on whatever they can fit in their mouths and taking in oxygen through its entire skin but mainly the hanging "foot" on their underside. When they are ready, they will seek out riverside trees or a coastal rocks on which to anchor their tail onto during their pupa stage.
As a pupa, their skin expands over their legs, internalizing and connecting them into pair of lateral spines in which each claw is molded to connect with the one in front of it and grow around the hydrostatic leg sacks, turning them into hydraulic muscle, while other claws grow around the torso into dorsal & ventral ribs. Externally their embryonic lateral lines restart, growing new legs around fully developed gonads. The 1st 3rd and 5th hearts merge with their 2nd 4th and 6th hearts, forming three two-chambered hearts connected along a central blood cord, containing both arteries and veins. The central nerve cord extends directly above and around the central blood cord like a net with long gaps, letting the former oxygenate the later and allowing both systems to use the same pathways, as well as maximizing protection to both being in the inner most part of the body. In turn the main nerve clusters forms a ring shape around the blood cord, maximizing blood flow to the brains and ganglia. The specialized oxygen absorption tissue from their once ancestral foot expands sideways on each segments and roll up over the ventral ribs, forming continuous tubes tail to forelimb.
When they are done, they wil stretch out their legs to fill their skin, gaining a grip on the ground they will raise their tail, wait a bit and then start vigorously whipping their tails again and again.
As they do so they start triggering Bernoulli's principle, the faster moving air along the raised or quick-whipping tail creates a low pressure pocket at the openings at the end of the tail, sucking out the air from the lung tubes which in turn sucks in air from the side slits.
The smells of their environment will be carried with the airflow over the caudanasum, or nose-tail, a crescent shaped cluster of chemical receptors and nerve cells that detects the smells from each tail nostrils and from over the tip of the organ, using 3 point value to assign each smell a vector, arousing the Posterior ganglia to paint a rich olfactory images with which to wake up the main cerebrum at the center of their distributed Y shaped nervous system, which will in turn wake up the biceptial ganglia behind each eye to stretch their counter arms and look around, a situation that arose as main sensory organs on opposite ends do not land themselves to natural cephalization. Once awake, all 4 newly developed thinking organs ready to work together and learn with trial and many many errors what every newborn wants to know: what can they eat and how can they get it.
While they don't exactly hear in terms of discerning the details of sound waves, they can sense strong vibrations like steps and roars as well as wind and thunder. The later they find particularly exciting, as the time before a monsoon or stormy weather can only mean one thing. They will release strong pheramones and seek each other out, and not as food, gathering around water and spawn their gametes out of their tails, careful to not get into the water as an internal fertilization can be fatal, letting the wind spread theirs eggs wherever they may land, key to their wide distribution.
This post has been edited by Jarlaxle: Feb 13 2023, 12:15 PM
You need to arrange the template so there isn't so much extra space between these: just press the enter key one time per sentence.
I realize now that the Beta submission guide could be clearer. Try looking at submissions that already exist for formatting guidance. The scientific name should be in parenthesis just after the common name, and the common name should be just after the picture. It's not necessary to specify what the name means in the template, and generally isn't done, although you could specify what its name means in a trivia section of the description.
You'll need to be more specific about its diet. There are a few "anything smaller than itself" exception submissions, but those are for genus-group submissions and microbe-level consumers, and even then it's typical to specify a few other genus groups or interactions with other species. For the diet of the larva, you'll have to specify exactly what it eats in the diet.
The sentences are much too long.
", and who could blame them?" This too informal. It is okay to have the rare joke in Sagan 4 submissions, but it should be dry and formal-sounding.
"who's oily" Whose oily.
It's best to provide just one perspective on the submitted organism in the main image, although you can provide the other perspectives in supplemental images.
I can provide more feedback later.
I realize now that the Beta submission guide could be clearer. Try looking at submissions that already exist for formatting guidance. The scientific name should be in parenthesis just after the common name, and the common name should be just after the picture. It's not necessary to specify what the name means in the template, and generally isn't done, although you could specify what its name means in a trivia section of the description.
You'll need to be more specific about its diet. There are a few "anything smaller than itself" exception submissions, but those are for genus-group submissions and microbe-level consumers, and even then it's typical to specify a few other genus groups or interactions with other species. For the diet of the larva, you'll have to specify exactly what it eats in the diet.
The sentences are much too long.
", and who could blame them?" This too informal. It is okay to have the rare joke in Sagan 4 submissions, but it should be dry and formal-sounding.
"who's oily" Whose oily.
It's best to provide just one perspective on the submitted organism in the main image, although you can provide the other perspectives in supplemental images.
I can provide more feedback later.
| QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Oct 13 2021, 03:20 PM) |
| You need to arrange the template so there isn't so much extra space between these: just press the enter key one time per sentence. I realize now that the Beta submission guide could be clearer. Try looking at submissions that already exist for formatting guidance. The scientific name should be in parenthesis just after the common name, and the common name should be just after the picture. It's not necessary to specify what the name means in the template, and generally isn't done, although you could specify what its name means in a trivia section of the description. You'll need to be more specific about its diet. There are a few "anything smaller than itself" exception submissions, but those are for genus-group submissions and microbe-level consumers, and even then it's typical to specify a few other genus groups or interactions with other species. For the diet of the larva, you'll have to specify exactly what it eats in the diet. The sentences are much too long. ", and who could blame them?" This too informal. It is okay to have the rare joke in Sagan 4 submissions, but it should be dry and formal-sounding. "who's oily" Whose oily. It's best to provide just one perspective on the submitted organism in the main image, although you can provide the other perspectives in supplemental images. I can provide more feedback later. |
Hi, thanks, hello there, long time on/off listener first time caller. I followed through on your feedback and went by these for examples https://specevo.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=2710&st=0
I hope it's better now, I went by the pic that felt closer to its ancestor, and also the more common way to see it move about unless it's actively persuing something.
If I get to join the project I also have concepts for Crystal Goblin, Sand Locrint, Balloon Knightworm & it's purple friend, Slooíde, Flopleaves & Krakow Dwarf Gazebo descendents, though they all need to be fleshed out more before they can work. In general I'd like to work a bit on Krakow's ecology if it's still around after the coming extinction event
The extinction event has already happened, technically submissions are closed while we finish up some stuff behind the scenes but I'm trying to get things expedited.
Are you on the Discord server? I don't see anyone with the same name.
Are you on the Discord server? I don't see anyone with the same name.
I'm looking at this more closely now - why does it develop an endoskeleton, and why hydraulic muscles?
Note, if you assumed earth anatomy for asterzoa, please try to avoid that--while they tend to resemble starfish, they do not have starfish characteristics.
We also have a rule that the same shape endoskeleton cannot evolve twice, to prevent there from being 73629349726719610 independent vertebrate lineages.
Note, if you assumed earth anatomy for asterzoa, please try to avoid that--while they tend to resemble starfish, they do not have starfish characteristics.
We also have a rule that the same shape endoskeleton cannot evolve twice, to prevent there from being 73629349726719610 independent vertebrate lineages.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 04:17 AM) |
| I'm looking at this more closely now - why does it develop an endoskeleton, and why hydraulic muscles? Note, if you assumed earth anatomy for asterzoa, please try to avoid that--while they tend to resemble starfish, they do not have starfish characteristics. We also have a rule that the same shape endoskeleton cannot evolve twice, to prevent there from being 73629349726719610 independent vertebrate lineages. |
An incomplete leg reabsorption. The endoskeleton in the adult is made of the internalized claws of the juvenile, growing to connect to one another to form two sets of lateral spines, and the hydrostatic skeleton sacks of the internalized legs get reused as hydraulic muscles. Note that it's only a spine in terms of providing support, the nerve cord is in the middle grown over the blood cord.
I hope the duel spine system is enough to distinguish it from anything on Earth, and I don't think I've seen anything like that on Sagan 4.
I think those would be hydrostatic muscles, not hydraulic (I used incorrect terminology in certain asterplents, which I have since fixed).
The claws are made of keratin. How do they manage keratinous internal structures?
I'm also not sure of the part where they gain more segments as they grow. How do they do that? In the ancestor, the number of segments was constant throughout life. (Also, increasing the number of segments on the body would also increase the number of segments on the counter-arms)
The claws are made of keratin. How do they manage keratinous internal structures?
I'm also not sure of the part where they gain more segments as they grow. How do they do that? In the ancestor, the number of segments was constant throughout life. (Also, increasing the number of segments on the body would also increase the number of segments on the counter-arms)
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 05:05 AM) |
| I think those would be hydrostatic muscles, not hydraulic (I used incorrect terminology in certain asterplents, which I have since fixed). |
I'm not entirely sure the semantics but my thinking was open plan vs closed plan, meaning that a hydrostatic skeleton would be using pressurized liquids moved freely throughout the body, while internally separated sacks within the body would count more towards an hydraulic muscle system.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 05:05 AM) |
| The claws are made of keratin. How do they manage keratinous internal structures? |
I'd imagine some kind of keratin eating phagocytes, same way we get rid of dead body cells.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 05:05 AM) |
| I'm also not sure of the part where they gain more segments as they grow. How do they do that? In the ancestor, the number of segments was constant throughout life. |
As embryos they would have had to grow new segments within the egg. As the advent of complete metamorphosis meant continuing that growth period became advantageous, it extended and these ones just have the same genetic script triggered again and again as larva.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 05:05 AM) |
| Also, increasing the number of segments on the body would also increase the number of segments on the counter-arms) |
I figured the counter arms would diverge in script sightly prior to that in the embryo, between the "bristlebunny and toothgrip bunny phases". In terms of developing body structure.
I believe the embryos divide into segments, rather than adding more; more like a vertebrate than an arthropod, I think, or perhaps the development of fingers might be a better comparison.
The evolutionary development stages thing in embryos is a myth. It's been disproven for decades, but it's still taught in old textbooks, so I won't hold it against you. "Primitive" body features present in embryos are generally those that are required to develop features that are still retained; for example, unborn humans have gill slits because they are required to form the jaws, which are modified gill arches. (There actually is a feature like this in most asterzoa; as their bilateral symmetry comes from modifying the original radial body plan, they are forced to have a radial developmental stage).
A single connected system of fluid used for movement using hydraulic pressure is a hydraulic system. Starfish have this. It's distinct from hydrostatic, where the volume doesn't change.
Edit: I'm tired. We're having a discussion on what to do with terminology on the discord
The evolutionary development stages thing in embryos is a myth. It's been disproven for decades, but it's still taught in old textbooks, so I won't hold it against you. "Primitive" body features present in embryos are generally those that are required to develop features that are still retained; for example, unborn humans have gill slits because they are required to form the jaws, which are modified gill arches. (There actually is a feature like this in most asterzoa; as their bilateral symmetry comes from modifying the original radial body plan, they are forced to have a radial developmental stage).
A single connected system of fluid used for movement using hydraulic pressure is a hydraulic system. Starfish have this. It's distinct from hydrostatic, where the volume doesn't change.
Edit: I'm tired. We're having a discussion on what to do with terminology on the discord
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 06:03 AM) |
| I believe the embryos divide into segments, rather than adding more; more like a vertebrate than an arthropod, I think, or perhaps the development of fingers might be a better comparison. |
I see what you're saying about division. Essentially it would need undeveloped segments that can still divide at its tail end. I can add that.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 06:03 AM) |
(There actually is a feature like this in most asterzoa; as their bilateral symmetry comes from modifying the original radial body plan, they are forced to have a radial developmental stage) |
In that context, the continued segmentation of the anal arm would be triggered after the radial stage, allowing it to have different growth triggers.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Oct 16 2021, 06:03 AM) |
A single connected system of fluid used for movement using hydraulic pressure is a hydraulic system. Starfish have this. It's distinct from hydrostatic, where the volume doesn't change. Edit: I'm tired. We're having a discussion on what to do with terminology on the discord |
Initially my thinking was that at this early point I think it wouldn't evolve to an interconnected system, rather more like a paired system (like the two yellow sacks in anatomy slice), where the hydrostatic sack gets divided into opposing force hydraulic muscles.
But since you pointed out the ancestor would have had a full hydrostatic skeleton, it might make more sense to maintain that in part as a fluid chamber within the body, as rather then having to evolve connections between muscles it would be a matter of evolving divisions within an already connected system.
P.s.after further discord talk, will also need to change blood color, rip turquoise blood, you were pretty when I thought we had you. I'll be able to work on modifications tomorrow night
It may be possible to green it a blood color different from what its oxygen-carrying pigment would suggest.
Green-blooded lizards have green blood due to biliverdin, a bile pigment. It's speculated to be a way of resisting malaria. Some marine fish have it, too.Some marine fish have it, too. Unfortunately, adaptations specifically against disease would likely be underdeveloped due to it having very few disease-causing organisms relative to Earth, and few disease vectors like mosquitoes and ticks.
Green-blooded lizards have green blood due to biliverdin, a bile pigment. It's speculated to be a way of resisting malaria. Some marine fish have it, too.Some marine fish have it, too. Unfortunately, adaptations specifically against disease would likely be underdeveloped due to it having very few disease-causing organisms relative to Earth, and few disease vectors like mosquitoes and ticks.
Updates:
- Green blood, ended up going with the oxygen carrying pigment, though I like the idea of mixing it up in future creatures once there's enough disease to justify it.
- Hydraulic bladder system emerging from the hydrostatic skeleton of the larva.
- a visual depiction of the duel spine system and how it connects.
- an explanation for continued segmentation after birth, modified the larva tail end.
I don't know if the colors are clear from context or If it's just in my head because I've been so preoccupied with their anatomy. Does it need a color chart?
- Green blood, ended up going with the oxygen carrying pigment, though I like the idea of mixing it up in future creatures once there's enough disease to justify it.
- Hydraulic bladder system emerging from the hydrostatic skeleton of the larva.
- a visual depiction of the duel spine system and how it connects.
- an explanation for continued segmentation after birth, modified the larva tail end.
I don't know if the colors are clear from context or If it's just in my head because I've been so preoccupied with their anatomy. Does it need a color chart?
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