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Proposal for Maineiac

Current Maineiac Biota

Glacialdrak
Helmethead Uksip
Ice Teuthopin
Uksor
Scaled Diveskunik
Baebula
Mountsnapper
Chaococoon
Gliding Gushstrider
Drooping Orbion
Eastward Landlubber
Tlukvaequabora
Twinkbora
Marblora
Larandbora
Borinvermee
Stowaway Harmbless
Tipsnapper
Sappy Pinknose
Gushflier
Pilonomroot
Seashrog
Cleaner Borvermid
False Cleaner Borvermid
Pirate Waxface
Cocobarrage
Obsidibend
Mainland Fuzzpalm
Mangot
Qupe Tree
Fuzzweed
Gumjorn
Carnosprawl
Kakonat
Shailnitor
Bangsticks
Fuzzpile
Wolvershrog
Communal Janit
Infilt Pewpa
Scaled Srugeing
Cryobowler Srugeing
Fatcoat
Topship Fuzzpalm
Topship Shrog
Pioneer Minicrystal
Maineiac Bubbleweed
Maineiac Bubblepede
Dwarf Maineiac Gilltail
Toothbrush Arthrofin
Maineiac Shocker
Red Eye Seaswimmer
Scorpodile
Bubblebush
Sugary Minicrystal
Shelterkelp
Bubblily
River Lyngbakr
Srugeing
Riparian Scorpodile
Orangemat
Flashfin Gilltail
Scraperbeak Gilltail
Pruning Gilltail
Leafy Plyentwort
Maineiac Rivershrog
Maineiac Shailnitor
Aossi
Srugeing of Paradise
Maineiac Orbion
Giant Spiny Wrigum
Pedesorm
Pedemuk
Maineiac Uktank
Brieneux
Roaming Oropede
Harvester Pedesorm
Sormsnapper
Repeating Treebion
Four Prongion
Polyprong Orbush
Metamorphling Gilltail
Coalskin Skywatcher
Karybdos
FieldSwarmer
Finback
Flatscooter
Umbersnapper
Marsh Scorpodile
Raft Building Cone Puffgrass
Minnosparrow
Colonial Bubblgea
Hang Gliding Pinyuk
Ouchiiro
Symbioraft Diaminet
Hitchhiker Scuttler
Snapperbeak Hookphlyer
Bora Scuttler
Phlice
Amphibidoon
Pioneer Raftballs
Colonial Bobiiro
Darwinian Diaminet
Pebbleback
Stonebeak Phlyer
Pelagic Puffgrass
Mangrovecrystal
Simple Majurum
Rusty Symbiocell
Soil Majurum
Hitchhiker Hexspourus
Predatory Majurum
Rustwurm
Octovinbion
Maineiac Glasstower
Bristlebranch Treebion
Frosty Sauceback
Prutabula
Mainestalk
Piloswrigum
Poison Pedesorm
Armored Pedesorm
Miner Pedesorm
Sormlicker Sauceback
Prutarbor
Fruitsnapper
False Poison Pedesorm
Logcrusher
Pilokepderi
Windfilter
Cochliabite
Corvisnapper
Violet Kitshrox
Koddembula
Dry Shrubite
Desert Pedesorm
Camoback
Crowned Treeshrog
Pilunoroot
Gelbion
Mountain Pedesorm
Blastree
Snowy Florasnapper
Snow Corvisnapper
Fuzzkern
Pilonoroot
Snowmelt Srugeing
Slow Urhook
Floating Stickyball
Emulswimmer
Table Cushion
Villigrass
Magnekite
Diamiarm
Borewurm
YellowCushion
Hanging Villigrass
Gomphioculum Microscopica
Funivenator Organuculus
Glirodlium Istaruthus
Crescoquin Scindestus
Wykraline
Macululuchia
DisturbedInfectoid
Saltiri
Sudline
ColonySalmundus
Byoukiri
Noplanktoid
SlenderMiniswarmer
Minibean
Crocunetwork
Rainbow Marephasmatis
Symboather
Crastrum
Squarenet Crastrum
Featherbelly Foi
Cleaner Crastrum
Disorderly Gelatin
Sunlit Plagu
Oceanrorm
Marine Tuffdra
Wading Leafshell
Sea Tatodder
Marine Arthrofin
Rusty Muckraker
Marine Bubbleweed
Marine Bubblepede
Marine Shocker
Marine Gilltail
Marine Filtersquid
Marine Droopgea
Marine Finworm
Marine Urpoi
Marine Shrubite
Greengill
Sticky Urphish
Calmstrum
Probing Gilltail
SeaCural
Bubbleweed Muckraker
Finned Filtersquid
Ocean Tristage
Nectascooter
Lurehum
Suctionrorm
Marine Mine Layer
Polar Hummroot
Hairy Slitherworm
Colonial Trapinout
Globe Gilltail
Blue Gillfin
Ebony Pump Gilltail
Fuzzy Krillpede
Crevice Tuff
Hallucrastrum
Mini Pukai
Bleedin Waterworm
Buoygea
Roj
Gray Muckraker
Chunky Zoister
Chambered Bobiiro
Octofoi
Sealid
Speartooth Seaswimmer
Speckled Spinderorm
Vicious Gilltail
Seadisk
Emperor Seaswimmer
Vicious Seaswimmer
Seafin
Islandball Gillfin
Gillrom
Spotted Shocker
Common Oceanscooter
Strainerbeak
Snatcherswarmer
Bloodfin Scylarian
Bloister
Umbrascale Lyngbakr
Viridimaw Lyngbakr
Cruelfang Hafgufa
Bigmouthed Muckraker
RoundvWingedvHookphlyer
BeachvPiloroot
Ice Angler Oropede
Plated Plin
Talfuzz
Shieldworm
Iron Siever
Ringtail Limbless
Spiny Wrigum
Dry Gelatin
Gushlych
Retigroenx
Hidestrider
Haplotoke
Chambered Bubblegea
Clamshut Waterworm
Qural
Quralrorm
Snappermaw Waterworm
Ripping Waterworm
Goldilackaruck
ShadowSeaswimmer
HoneypotPukai
Grazhun
Nonessie
Triloraker
Thrashing Seaswimmer
Scuttleball Gillfin
Diamond Pumpgill
Sucker Swarmer
Crushermaw Scylarian
Left Right Scalucker
Floating Pumpgill
Sardchovy
Gulperpump
Ocean Scorpodile
Stalk Rastum
Terrorfang Hafgufa
Pygmy Lyngbakr


OviFan's Desired Biota

Tundra Gemshrub
Numflora
Drakolantern
Needlevine
Standing Piloroot
Chime Slingberry
Scraggly Swaberry
Dwarf Swaberry
Tundra Goth Tree
Quilled Slingberry
Ugly Woodenberry
Thawgrass
Nibulb Thawgrass
Ruby Cruster
Hairyllo
Yumerhing
Vandriswoop
Yenaptak
Gupongrass
Crownrunner
Yellowgrass
Irontangle
Curdledberry
Amphibious Droopgea
Sailsar
Patresidal Loppy

Nomnom through their eggs and young surviving on the rafts.
Iceblaster by riding on the rafts.
Icicleback by riding on the rafts.
Horned Leafshell by riding on the rafts.
Xatakpa by riding on the rafts.
Hydroblaster by riding on the rafts.
Polar Diveskunik by riding on the rafts.
Piña Leafshell by riding on the rafts.
Vandriswoop Shellworm by riding on the rafts.
Migrating Capispine by riding on the rafts.

Sly Snoa by riding on the rafts.
Dobem by riding on the rafts.
Slider Snoa by riding on the rafts.
Foi-Devourer Sauceback by riding on the rafts.
Greatmouth Charybdis by riding on the rafts.
Divedove by riding on the rafts.
Ice-Angler Oropede by riding on the rafts.

Tunneling Shellworm by riding on the rafts.
Polar Thaworm through their eggs and young surviving on the rafts.
Carpet Foi by riding on the rafts.
Ittiz Foi by riding on the rafts.
Feces Shellworm by riding on the rafts.
Leafed Swarmer by staying close to the rafts.
Rusty Muckraker by staying close to the rafts.

Which of these would compete with each other (If they do, the Maineiac fauna should overrule the OviFan Biota that came in due to the difficulty of this meta and to avoid a repeat of Fermi)

Which ones should stay and which of those get fewer immediate descendants allowed should be based on the following factors

Meta-Game: Which still have reasonably close relatives/itself exist elsewhere/already on Maineiac, which are the least broken by design, could someone else save the organism listed (EX. the capispine originally intended to be saved via Yanisflora by Mnidjm, which was created first), OviFan did mention the populations on Mainieac having low genetic diversity (This has been taken into account)

In-Game: Which had the easiest time getting into Mainieac and populating it (Size, aggression levels, diet, and reproduction are important factors), which best handle competition (Whether they don't compete/have a winning edge), which has the most number of biomes that they could spread into

The more factors against an organism, the fewer immediate descendants it should be allowed to have.

Is the Ark-Crafting Phlyer itself actually broken even if it's going to die out? Considering the phlyer’s dexterity is somewhat exaggerated (An unintentional oversight).

One part, I can say that is fortunate is that the fauna were already organized from most likely to least to start new populations as I had previously talked to OviFan a little about it.

I do heavily understand the desire/need to save or resurrect species that were indeed carelessly wiped out through more absurd means like the No-Snarf and other plagues. After all, I have been known for my habit of saving species as best as I can; I did it before with the Nodents, Shrews, and Humms. However, I feel it is also important to remember that a part of having a decent biodiversity on Sagan 4 isn't just the quantity and the quality, it's also helpful to reduce the homogenization of Sagan 4 that is inadvertently devaluing some of the other species and making it somewhat harder for making submissions due to how overwhelming it can get to a degree (Although this homogenization isn't necessarily at a critical state at the moment, but the less there is, the better). I would also like to apologize for failing to notice this sooner, I allowed myself to get caught up in all the excitement in the Ark-Building Phlyer that I overlooked several details or didn’t look at them properly enough.

Ones that I am proposing to remove from the desired list (But this list has some negotiable organisms, excluding the first 6, which I feel are non-negotiable)

Polar Diveskunik - It was already agreed that its current stance made it broken, hence why the Scaled Diveskunik was evolved from it, which also already lives in Maineiac, and it also has another less-broken relative in the Burroskunik, which deserves some attention
Sailsar – This microbe depends on iron-rich soil to thrive, something that won’t exactly be available on the arks
Leafed Swarmer - Already found in other habitats and appears to require living on the seafloor, thus not able to perfectly follow the arks as a more land-faring/amphibious/flying organism can
Rusty Muckraker - Same reasons as the Leafed Swarmer, but also that it needs rust-colored sand to properly blend in, otherwise it wouldn't be able to last long enough to establish a population without being easily seen and consumed
Glacialdrak - Already found in Maineiac
Ice-Angler Oropede - Already found in Maineiac
Chime Slingberry – Has a direct descendant that is near-identical to it, rendering saving it somewhat redundant
Tunneling Shellworm – Has an ancestor that is being saved AND has living direct descendants
Horned Leafshell - Not only has several other living relatives, but also has its descendant, the Piña Leafshell, already listed in the savings (The Piña might be able to be saved by Mni as well. If not, I would still suggest keeping the Pina between the two of them)
Tundra Goth Tree - Has extremely closely relatives/descendants already saved
Drakolantern - There already exists the Parasitic Branch-Lantern, a grand-descendant, which is very well spread out and has a similar niche
Xatakpa - Already found in other biomes
Sly Snoa – Only if the Xatakpa stays removed from the list
Slider Snoa - Has numerous descendants
Divedove - Once again, it has close living relatives and needs freshwater
Standing Piloroot – Has two descendants that are already saved
Vandriswoop Shellworm, Hairyllo, Yumerhing, Vandriswoop, Yenaptak, Gupongrass, Crownrunner, Yellowgrass, Migrating Capispine, Irontangle – Able to be saved by Mnidjm's Yanisflora genus group and should be allowed to do so.
Patresidal Loppy – Its resistant spores and being in a richer environment might allow it to out-compete Maineiac flora currently present
Dwarf Swaberry – Its resilience and rapid growth could out-compete the Maineiac flora currently present
Quilled Slingberry – Being in common clusters might cause it to compete with Maineiac flora, BUT has less of a chance of doing so compared to the Dwarf Swaberry
Nomnom - Has living relatives that can easily do its niche, making it redundant

These 10 (Counting a hybrid as 1), I have personally determined, should absolutely stay. 3 Direct Descendants Maximum, NO GENUS GROUPS.

Needlevine – The one I am iffy about due to its resilience and how quickly it can spread, BUT it is apparently also inevitable because it is what the Arkcrafting Phlyer uses for nesting and it does only reproduce asexually. 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Numflora – Has no descendants, stands out as unique compared to all of its surviving relatives, and appears to lack any particular resilience outside of anything standard for tundra flora and remnants of ancestral resistance to heat, therefore not likely to compete too much with the previously established fauna. 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Ugly Woodenberry – While able to grow in the summer, is incapable of spreading during colder times. 2 Descendants
Thaworm - A Detritivore specialized for the colder areas. 1 Descendant
Ruby Cruster – 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Thawgrass X Nibulb Thawgrass – As a hybrid replacement. 1 Descendant
Iceblaster – Specialist of Numflora, will be far less likely to compete with other fauna and prevents Numflora from overpopulating, especially with its currently broken means of “insulation”. 1 Descendant
Icicleback – Only surviving relatives are distantly related, can prevent thawgrasses from overpopulating, and can provide extra food for predators. 3 Descendants
Scraggly Swaberry – While it produces a lot of berries, very few reach maturity, suggesting they would have a hard time competing with other Maineiac plants. 2 Descendants
Feces Shellworm – A necessary corprophagic organism, enough said. 3 Descendants


If anyone has any input on what should be done in consideration to the desired biota vs what should be removed or will be handled by someone else, I am open to hearing you out.

Another aspect that Mnidjm and I discussed is possibly having it that this Ark-Crafting Phlyer uses Truteal as a midpoint to rest in before further carrying on to Maineiac. This would also guarantee that when Truteal sinks, it will add another factor to its extinction.

Truthfully, I feel the offer I am making is a pretty good proposal.

Next Part should be how to handle the currently tampered biodiversity of Fermi?

When going over this, it might be easier to organize by trophic level and habitat. After all, if a large herbivorous species is aggressive and quick to reproduce, and able to outcompete newcomers, but its own food sources are outcompeted by a newcomer flora, its survival chances would greatly drop.

QUOTE

TheBigDeepCheatsy,Aug 13 2022, 02:43 PM I do heavily understand the desire/need to save or resurrect species that were indeed carelessly wiped out through more absurd means like the No-Snarf and other plagues. After all, I have been known for my habit of saving species as best as I can; I did it before with the Nodents, Shrews, and Humms. However, I feel it is also important to remember that a part of having a decent biodiversity on Sagan 4 isn't just the quantity and the quality, it's also helpful to reduce the homogenization of Sagan 4 that is inadvertently devaluing some of the other species and making it somewhat harder for making submissions due to how overwhelming it can get to a degree (Although this homogenization isn't necessarily at a critical state at the moment, but the less there is, the better). I would also like to apologize for failing to notice this sooner, I allowed myself to get caught up in all the excitement in the Ark-Building Phlyer that I overlooked several details or didn’t look at them properly enough.

To put it another way, while we were guilty of pruning too many branches off the tree for enough apples to grow before, we also realize that grafting too many dead branches on it could also choke out that tree and still prevent any more apples from growing.

I know you mean absolutely well with this species, OviFan, and I know you are a sharp, diligent, and talented young man. But you should also let others try out saving their species as well, let Mnidjm have his turn with the Yanisflora out of consideration how he feels and you can still give some tips to him on what else he could possibly save with them in addition to the Pina and Capispine. Furthermore, he did submit his species first, WIP or not. It doesn't need to be just you pulling the weight. Plus, while I did save many species, there were even more I wanted to save, but could not and I learned to accept on sometimes letting them go while you have done your best. And as I mentioned before, having too many saved species could cause a problem with the current timeline, low genetic diversity or high, along with having too many species to work with when we already have a lot to do still. Please take my proposal because it's a very good deal and we can all get what we want and need out of this.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 14 2022, 08:49 AM)

When going over this, it might be easier to organize by trophic level and habitat. After all, if a large herbivorous species is aggressive and quick to reproduce, and able to outcompete newcomers, but its own food sources are outcompeted by a newcomer flora, its survival chances would greatly drop.

While I did consider that to a degree, I didn't think of it to the extension that you did. This has me reducing my number of Dobem descendants down to 1.

Furthermore, the other reason for the limited number of descendants allowed for the proposed survivors is so that other people can get their species done sooner as well.

QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 15 2022, 03:28 AM)

QUOTE TheBigDeepCheatsy,Aug 13 2022, 02:43 PM I do heavily understand the desire/need to save or resurrect species that were indeed carelessly wiped out through more absurd means like the No-Snarf and other plagues. After all, I have been known for my habit of saving species as best as I can; I did it before with the Nodents, Shrews, and Humms. However, I feel it is also important to remember that a part of having a decent biodiversity on Sagan 4 isn't just the quantity and the quality, it's also helpful to reduce the homogenization of Sagan 4 that is inadvertently devaluing some of the other species and making it somewhat harder for making submissions due to how overwhelming it can get to a degree (Although this homogenization isn't necessarily at a critical state at the moment, but the less there is, the better). I would also like to apologize for failing to notice this sooner, I allowed myself to get caught up in all the excitement in the Ark-Building Phlyer that I overlooked several details or didn’t look at them properly enough. To put it another way, while we were guilty of pruning too many branches off the tree for enough apples to grow before, we also realize that grafting too many dead branches on it could also choke out that tree and still prevent any more apples from growing. I know you mean absolutely well with this species, OviFan, and I know you are a sharp, diligent, and talented young man. But you should also let others try out saving their species as well, let Mnidjm have his turn with the Yanisflora out of consideration how he feels and you can still give some tips to him on what else he could possibly save with them in addition to the Pina and Capispine. Furthermore, he did submit his species first, WIP or not. It doesn't need to be just you pulling the weight. Plus, while I did save many species, there were even more I wanted to save, but could not and I learned to accept on sometimes letting them go while you have done your best. And as I mentioned before, having too many saved species could cause a problem with the current timeline, low genetic diversity or high, along with having too many species to work with when we already have a lot to do still. Please take my proposal because it's a very good deal and we can all get what we want and need out of this. QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 14 2022, 08:49 AM) When going over this, it might be easier to organize by trophic level and habitat. After all, if a large herbivorous species is aggressive and quick to reproduce, and able to outcompete newcomers, but its own food sources are outcompeted by a newcomer flora, its survival chances would greatly drop. While I did consider that to a degree, I didn't think of it to the extension that you did. This has me reducing my number of Dobem descendants down to 1. Furthermore, the other reason for the limited number of descendants allowed for the proposed survivors is so that other people can get their species done sooner as well.

I can probably remove most of these from the list, but what im about to show are the ones I wish to keep in
Tundra Goth Tree (Its only close relative lives far away and its survival would allow the survival of another taxon)
Lolly Poppy (It has no close relatives that are quite like it and it would be limited to just living living at the Maineiac Polar River and Maineiac Polar Riparian biomes)
Drakolantern (Its one living descendant is quite different from this species in terms of lifestyle and also lives far away)

Xatakpa (While it does live elsewhere, it could still make its way to Maineiac, especially since glassflora would still be present there, plus it would be the earliest dwellers to reach the continent and would provide food for another species I wish to spread)
Horned Leafshell (its only living relative is the Wading Leafshell and its respective descendants, who are quite different in terms of lifestyle due to being more tied to the water than it)
Nomnom (While it does have close relatives, the Nomnom would avoid competition with them as it feeds on different kinds of flora, so I think it would survive)

Ice-Angler Oropede (It may have a population on Maineiac, but they are restricted to the polar beach of the north, the superspreader would spread them to the watersheds of the continent as well which would increase their range, and they would in turn provide food for other species)
Divedove (I think this species would be able to eek out a living on the rafts, as a good portion of its prey is present on those rafts and it could better access them than the slider snoa, if they do make it they would finally have a chance to diversify)
Sly Snoa (They are a relatively unique taxon who is quite different from its relatives or descendants, and they would be closely linked to the Xatakpas)

Leafed Swarmer (The species is pelagic once they reach adulthood, so they could certainly travel farther than if they just remained on the sea floor, plus this would mean they would be present outside of Wallace's river systems or the southern ice sheets)

You are potentially delegitimizing the ecosystem that was made before you ever joined. I think that this "superspreader" can only do harm and I'm starting to think they should actually be banned for retroactive submissions.

Do not add any species that are already extant, that is what evolving and spreading them in the modern time when continuity errors are not a factor is for. If it can be done today, do not fucking do it retroactively!

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Aug 16 2022, 08:18 AM)

QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 15 2022, 03:28 AM) QUOTE TheBigDeepCheatsy,Aug 13 2022, 02:43 PM I do heavily understand the desire/need to save or resurrect species that were indeed carelessly wiped out through more absurd means like the No-Snarf and other plagues. After all, I have been known for my habit of saving species as best as I can; I did it before with the Nodents, Shrews, and Humms. However, I feel it is also important to remember that a part of having a decent biodiversity on Sagan 4 isn't just the quantity and the quality, it's also helpful to reduce the homogenization of Sagan 4 that is inadvertently devaluing some of the other species and making it somewhat harder for making submissions due to how overwhelming it can get to a degree (Although this homogenization isn't necessarily at a critical state at the moment, but the less there is, the better). I would also like to apologize for failing to notice this sooner, I allowed myself to get caught up in all the excitement in the Ark-Building Phlyer that I overlooked several details or didn’t look at them properly enough. To put it another way, while we were guilty of pruning too many branches off the tree for enough apples to grow before, we also realize that grafting too many dead branches on it could also choke out that tree and still prevent any more apples from growing. I know you mean absolutely well with this species, OviFan, and I know you are a sharp, diligent, and talented young man. But you should also let others try out saving their species as well, let Mnidjm have his turn with the Yanisflora out of consideration how he feels and you can still give some tips to him on what else he could possibly save with them in addition to the Pina and Capispine. Furthermore, he did submit his species first, WIP or not. It doesn't need to be just you pulling the weight. Plus, while I did save many species, there were even more I wanted to save, but could not and I learned to accept on sometimes letting them go while you have done your best. And as I mentioned before, having too many saved species could cause a problem with the current timeline, low genetic diversity or high, along with having too many species to work with when we already have a lot to do still. Please take my proposal because it's a very good deal and we can all get what we want and need out of this. QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 14 2022, 08:49 AM) When going over this, it might be easier to organize by trophic level and habitat. After all, if a large herbivorous species is aggressive and quick to reproduce, and able to outcompete newcomers, but its own food sources are outcompeted by a newcomer flora, its survival chances would greatly drop. While I did consider that to a degree, I didn't think of it to the extension that you did. This has me reducing my number of Dobem descendants down to 1. Furthermore, the other reason for the limited number of descendants allowed for the proposed survivors is so that other people can get their species done sooner as well. I can probably remove most of these from the list, but what im about to show are the ones I wish to keep in Tundra Goth Tree (Its only close relative lives far away and its survival would allow the survival of another taxon) Lolly Poppy (It has no close relatives that are quite like it and it would be limited to just living living at the Maineiac Polar River and Maineiac Polar Riparian biomes) Drakolantern (Its one living descendant is quite different from this species in terms of lifestyle and also lives far away) Xatakpa (While it does live elsewhere, it could still make its way to Maineiac, especially since glassflora would still be present there, plus it would be the earliest dwellers to reach the continent and would provide food for another species I wish to spread) Horned Leafshell (its only living relative is the Wading Leafshell and its respective descendants, who are quite different in terms of lifestyle due to being more tied to the water than it) Nomnom (While it does have close relatives, the Nomnom would avoid competition with them as it feeds on different kinds of flora, so I think it would survive) Ice-Angler Oropede (It may have a population on Maineiac, but they are restricted to the polar beach of the north, the superspreader would spread them to the watersheds of the continent as well which would increase their range, and they would in turn provide food for other species) Divedove (I think this species would be able to eek out a living on the rafts, as a good portion of its prey is present on those rafts and it could better access them than the slider snoa, if they do make it they would finally have a chance to diversify) Sly Snoa (They are a relatively unique taxon who is quite different from its relatives or descendants, and they would be closely linked to the Xatakpas) Leafed Swarmer (The species is pelagic once they reach adulthood, so they could certainly travel farther than if they just remained on the sea floor, plus this would mean they would be present outside of Wallace's river systems or the southern ice sheets)

I am willing to agree to the Xatakpa, Nomnom, Drakolantern, and Lolly Poppy (IF Mni cannot spread the Poppy with his Yannisflora genus group) if anyone else is willing to. I am declining the others, however. Especially since my intention of the Sly Snoa was that it is primarily a sanguivore of the Warmtsudo that sometimes ate eggs.

As said before, the Tundra Goth Tree has near-identical relatives that can re-spread into Maineiac or Barlowe through other means with relative ease in the present (IE, having the Coastal Goth Tree's gliding berries on the Bora reach the beaches)
The Ice-Angler Ororpede can evolve to spread out into Maineiac in the present and it might actually be wiser to do so
The Divedove still depends on freshwater regardless of whether it is on a boat or not. Also, having water in the boat would be rather counterproductive admittedly
Leafed Swarmer still has a long distance to be concerned about, predators that will spot it out for certain, and part of its life still requires being on the floor
Horned Leafshell still has its Pina descendant that can be saved by Mni and you could theoretically evolve something new from that, which could actually even take on a similar niche as the Horned Leafshell, even if it's not exactly the same.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Aug 16 2022, 09:57 AM)

You are potentially delegitimizing the ecosystem that was made before you ever joined. I think that this "superspreader" can only do harm and I'm starting to think they should actually be banned for retroactive submissions. Do not add any species that are already extant, that is what evolving and spreading them in the modern time when continuity errors are not a factor is for. If it can be done today, do not fucking do it retroactively!

While I am in agreement with the idea of "spreading out things that can be done now rather than retroactively" (As with the Ice-Angler Oropede for example, it can easily evolve something that spreads further out to Maineiac) and I understand your frustration with this entire delegitimization of the ecosystem and I do agree with your general concerns, this way of responding is rather uncalled for. The entire purpose of this proposal is to avoid conflict and come to a fairer agreement for everyone.

OviFan still gets some species saved, your ecosystem stays reasonably uncompromised, Mni gets a chance to try to save species and have his submission stay legitimized, and I hopefully get the chance to right my wrongs

Hm, on second thought I can agree with what you said for most of these, but I do still want to spread either the Divedohve or the Slider Snoa, preferably the former since it would then finally get the spotlight it deserves, and I proposed it making the journey rather than the Slider Snoa since it can actually swim relatively well and thus more regularly get on the rafts while hunting the small critters that are normally in its diet on said raft.

This post has been edited by OviraptorFan: Aug 16 2022, 08:12 PM

looks like your formatting broke there, it's hard to see where quotes start and end

Without the quotes

I am willing to agree to the Xatakpa, Nomnom, Drakolantern, and Lolly Poppy (IF Mni cannot spread the Poppy with his Yannisflora genus group) if anyone else is willing to. I am declining the others, however. Especially since my intention of the Sly Snoa was that it is primarily a sanguivore of the Warmtsudo that sometimes ate eggs.

As said before, the Tundra Goth Tree has near-identical relatives that can re-spread into Maineiac or Barlowe through other means with relative ease in the present (IE, having the Coastal Goth Tree's gliding berries on the Bora reach the beaches)
The Ice-Angler Ororpede can evolve to spread out into Maineiac in the present and it might actually be wiser to do so
The Divedove still depends on freshwater regardless of whether it is on a boat or not. Also, having water in the boat would be rather counterproductive admittedly
Leafed Swarmer still has a long distance to be concerned about, predators that will spot it out for certain, and part of its life still requires being on the floor
Horned Leafshell still has its Pina descendant that can be saved by Mni and you could theoretically evolve something new from that, which could actually even take on a similar niche as the Horned Leafshell, even if it's not exactly the same.

While I am in agreement with the idea of "spreading out things that can be done now rather than retroactively" (As with the Ice-Angler Oropede for example, it can easily evolve something that spreads further out to Maineiac) and I understand your frustration with this entire delegitimization of the ecosystem and I do agree with your general concerns, this way of responding is rather uncalled for. The entire purpose of this proposal is to avoid conflict and come to a fairer agreement for everyone.

OviFan still gets some species saved, your ecosystem stays reasonably uncompromised, Mni gets a chance to try to save species and have his submission stay legitimized, and I hopefully get the chance to right my wrongs.

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Aug 16 2022, 09:05 PM)

Hm, on second thought I can agree with what you said for most of these, but I do still want to spread either the Divedohve or the Slider Snoa, preferably the former since it would then finally get the spotlight it deserves, and I proposed it making the journey rather than the Slider Snoa since it can actually swim relatively well and thus more regularly get on the rafts while hunting the small critters that are normally in its diet on said raft.

If there must be a choice between the two, I will say the Divedove, but it requires one descendant replacement (No splits).

I cannot promise that it will make it, but you have made your case for the Divedove on my end.

On another note, for the case with the Dobem, I will be declining that as due to its more competitive and aggressive nature, it could easily outcompete all sorts of fauna. Think of it like bringing pigs to an unprepared island. I further recently discussed with Dorite and have come to a personal compromise on an organism I longed to do, the "Dododoria", and am willing to utilize the Doboor for that once I have a good visual on how the beak should work.

For the Fee and Foi-Devouring Sauceback, I have come to remember that the selected Fee are broken and I have confidence that if it hadn't been for the event that wiped out Ittiz, another way would have been found to eliminate those fee in particular. Unfortunately, this would also mean the death of the Foi-Devourer would be inevitable.

My main issue apart from superspreading being kinda absurd is that it's adding all of these things to the small private ecosystem of maineiac potentially delegitimizing the efforts of people like me and buff who have done a lot of work on the ecosystem. This is a problem in other areas, but like, at least the supercontinent can take the hit. Maineiac cannot. Imagine going back in time and unleashing hogs into australia some 50 million years ago; this is exactly what the ark-crafting phlyer is doing. It's a small ecosystem without the competitive strength to deal with these newcomers, which arrived retroactively in its infancy.

Further Revised List from this Proposal so far

Needlevine – 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Numflora – 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Ugly Woodenberry – 2 Descendants
Thaworm - 1 Descendant
Ruby Cruster – 1 Descendant with sexual reproduction
Thawgrass X Nibulb Thawgrass – As a hybrid replacement. 1 Descendant
Iceblaster – 1 Descendant with proper insulation
Icicleback – 2 Descendants (Unless it can be properly argued on why it should not be allowed to stay)
Scraggly Swaberry – 2 Descendants
Feces Shellworm – 3 Descendants
Nomnom - 1 Descendant
Drakolantern - 1 Descendant
Lolly Poppy (IF Mni cannot spread the Poppy with his Yannisflora genus group or cannot be spread by someone else) - 1 Descendant
Divedove - 1 Descendant (Unless it can be argued on why it should not be allowed to stay)

Furthermore, I am bringing a strict suggestion further to the table. This Ark-Crafter has to be your last retro submission, OviFan. This is not to punish you, but to allow others a chance. You are still welcome to offer suggestions, ideas, or advice to other people making their retro submissions.

I think we should not be needing to come up with reasons not to include species when this is blatant metagaming already. Species can be excluded at random just by saying those that did spread got very very lucky.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Aug 17 2022, 07:47 PM)

I think we should not be needing to come up with reasons not to include species when this is blatant metagaming already. Species can be excluded at random just by saying those that did spread got very very lucky.

You are correct on this organism being a serious case of metagaming and that a couple saved organisms can be chalked up to being lucky, but it also did run on some sort of train of logic, however disagreeable it may be. The reason I am trying to provide reasons and specifics is to better elaborate for everyone and bring forth things that may have been unintentionally forgotten or overlooked as I have carelessly overlooked before, which is how this all got started to begin with. To also further persuade OviFan, you, and Mni to come to an agreement.

I have recently decided to propose on removing the Xatakpa from the list

The Xatakpa has a bony body, which is heavier than any of the plents on board.

While the Icicleback is heavier than the Xatakpa, the Icicleback has the benefit of reproducing with live birth and a pouch, which reduces the risk of losing young in comparison to the Xatakpa laying hard-shelled eggs.

The Xatakpa is surviving quite fine on other regions and could be attended to those regions.

The Xatakpa has numerous descendants that are doing quite well.