Would a retroactively-inserted small landmark island be a compromise? Or would it not matter, because sea level rise over time make it sink beneath the waves anyway?
| QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 17 2022, 08:35 PM) |
| Would a retroactively-inserted small landmark island be a compromise? Or would it not matter, because sea level rise over time make it sink beneath the waves anyway? |
It would not matter, but I appreciate your suggestion.
| QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 17 2022, 11:19 PM) |
| I have recently decided to propose on removing the Xatakpa from the list The Xatakpa has a bony body, which is heavier than any of the plents on board. While the Icicleback is heavier than the Xatakpa, the Icicleback has the benefit of reproducing with live birth and a pouch, which reduces the risk of losing young in comparison to the Xatakpa laying hard-shelled eggs. The Xatakpa is surviving quite fine on other regions and could be attended to those regions. The Xatakpa has numerous descendants that are doing quite well. |
Very well, I can remove it from the list
Having been around during the original planning phase of the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer, I would like to say that, admittedly, I was becoming a bit weary seeing the list of biota introduced explode from just a few relict flora specialized for riparian and tundra niches to things either with thriving populations or descendants - things that certainly do not need to be inserted in a newer ecosystem to survive. Additionally, I kinda regret not saying anything about that back then as I was too caught up in the excitement of seeing all that diversity becoming preserved in modern times; maybe I could have prevented the ensuing conflict had I have spoken up.
As for specific saves, I disagree with including the Icicleback. Not only does it carry the risk of overruning Maineiac's ecologies, but it also somewhat sullies the significance of the Beach Cheekhorn - what would be its only surviving descendant - and the shrews that would later come to settle into the lands.
It was determined that the Ittiz fee are too broken for their own good, so I feel it's better simply to leave them behind. This in turn also goes for the Foi-Devourer Sauceback, which already has two successful descendant lines, and that extant basal saucebacks aren't really a thing we're in dire shortage of.
And while I still want a few of those relict flora to make the trip, notably the Numflora and a couple of lightberries, there are a few that don't quite sit right with me:
- The Tundra Gemshrub seems difficult to justify bringing over also, as it might be at odds with the pioneeroots and its own cousin flora.
- The slingberries would come to have decently healthy numbers over on Barlowe, making their spread here redundant.
- The thawgrasses count as vandriswoop flora, so it would be better off to let MNIDJM save them.
- At first the Needlevine appears to be a worthwhile pick for spreading, as it is a relatively unique variety of purple flora with no immediately close relatives. But due to it already possessing a sprawling rhizomous growth pattern, it will prove to be a persistent obstacle to dorite's upcoming grass-like orbion. Still, it may not become that pressing a roadblock due to its perplexing phenomenon of asexual-only propagation, and that a more heavily lignaceous rhizomal network requires more energy and nutrients to maintain than the presumably less demanding orbion.
All in all, I still appreciate that your Arkcrafting Hookphlyer could give a select few ill-fated biota a second lease at further diversity. It's just that we want to ensure it doesn't become too broken and potentially compromise any emerging ecosystems.
This post has been edited by sad-dingus (chillypaz): Aug 18 2022, 04:40 PM
As for specific saves, I disagree with including the Icicleback. Not only does it carry the risk of overruning Maineiac's ecologies, but it also somewhat sullies the significance of the Beach Cheekhorn - what would be its only surviving descendant - and the shrews that would later come to settle into the lands.
It was determined that the Ittiz fee are too broken for their own good, so I feel it's better simply to leave them behind. This in turn also goes for the Foi-Devourer Sauceback, which already has two successful descendant lines, and that extant basal saucebacks aren't really a thing we're in dire shortage of.
And while I still want a few of those relict flora to make the trip, notably the Numflora and a couple of lightberries, there are a few that don't quite sit right with me:
- The Tundra Gemshrub seems difficult to justify bringing over also, as it might be at odds with the pioneeroots and its own cousin flora.
- The slingberries would come to have decently healthy numbers over on Barlowe, making their spread here redundant.
- The thawgrasses count as vandriswoop flora, so it would be better off to let MNIDJM save them.
- At first the Needlevine appears to be a worthwhile pick for spreading, as it is a relatively unique variety of purple flora with no immediately close relatives. But due to it already possessing a sprawling rhizomous growth pattern, it will prove to be a persistent obstacle to dorite's upcoming grass-like orbion. Still, it may not become that pressing a roadblock due to its perplexing phenomenon of asexual-only propagation, and that a more heavily lignaceous rhizomal network requires more energy and nutrients to maintain than the presumably less demanding orbion.
All in all, I still appreciate that your Arkcrafting Hookphlyer could give a select few ill-fated biota a second lease at further diversity. It's just that we want to ensure it doesn't become too broken and potentially compromise any emerging ecosystems.
This post has been edited by sad-dingus (chillypaz): Aug 18 2022, 04:40 PM
| QUOTE |
| it will prove to be a persistent obstacle to dorite's upcoming grass-like orbion. |
Would it help if I created some kind of disease, parasite, or pest to weaken the grass-like orbion and allow for potential coexistence, or would that be too much metagaming at this point? I do recall a comparable, real-life ecological example of seaweed in rock pools with mollusk predators where one fast-growing species would quickly outcompete the others in predator-free environment. Only when predators are around can the full diversity be maintained.
| QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 18 2022, 06:44 PM) | ||
Would it help if I created some kind of disease, parasite, or pest to weaken the grass-like orbion and allow for potential coexistence, or would that be too much metagaming at this point? I do recall a comparable, real-life ecological example of seaweed in rock pools with mollusk predators where one fast-growing species would quickly outcompete the others in predator-free environment. Only when predators are around can the full diversity be maintained. |
It's probably too metagamey, unfortunately.
| QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 18 2022, 07:44 PM) | ||
Would it help if I created some kind of disease, parasite, or pest to weaken the grass-like orbion and allow for potential coexistence, or would that be too much metagaming at this point? I do recall a comparable, real-life ecological example of seaweed in rock pools with mollusk predators where one fast-growing species would quickly outcompete the others in predator-free environment. Only when predators are around can the full diversity be maintained. |
I would rather my already-submitted species not have the soil taken out from under it and my plans destroyed by someone deciding a different lineage is more important than it, thanks.
OviFan, I want to remind you that I stated to Dobem should be removed due to its aggressive and competitive nature making it like bringing pigs to Australia, also the Doboor does exist and is reasonably similar to the Dobem.
Furthermore, I will admit I cannot find any sound reason to deny the Divedove access, but I am requiring one descendant only if it makes it.
Furthermore, I will admit I cannot find any sound reason to deny the Divedove access, but I am requiring one descendant only if it makes it.
| QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 13 2022, 04:43 PM) |
Next Part should be how to handle the currently tampered biodiversity of Fermi? |
The following species have to be on Fermi because they have descendants there
Ringtailed Ketter, Purple Phlock, Climbing Korrybug, Fat Korystal, Violet Cadovermi, Flugwurm, Bloodskin Skywatcher, Jaydohve, Polar Skimsnapper, Tileback
(The Fat Korystal dosn't have a Fermian descendent but the Climbing Korrybug is a hyper specilist on it so it has to be present )Ideally it would be just them to minimize the impact but that would mean that several species would need their diets altered and the Alshamite wouldn't be able to spread nearly as many things
| QUOTE (sad-dingus (chillypaz) @ Aug 18 2022, 08:39 PM) |
| Having been around during the original planning phase of the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer, I would like to say that, admittedly, I was becoming a bit weary seeing the list of biota introduced explode from just a few relict flora specialized for riparian and tundra niches to things either with thriving populations or descendants - things that certainly do not need to be inserted in a newer ecosystem to survive. Additionally, I kinda regret not saying anything about that back then as I was too caught up in the excitement of seeing all that diversity becoming preserved in modern times; maybe I could have prevented the ensuing conflict had I have spoken up. As for specific saves, I disagree with including the Icicleback. Not only does it carry the risk of overruning Maineiac's ecologies, but it also somewhat sullies the significance of the Beach Cheekhorn - what would be its only surviving descendant - and the shrews that would later come to settle into the lands. It was determined that the Ittiz fee are too broken for their own good, so I feel it's better simply to leave them behind. This in turn also goes for the Foi-Devourer Sauceback, which already has two successful descendant lines, and that extant basal saucebacks aren't really a thing we're in dire shortage of. And while I still want a few of those relict flora to make the trip, notably the Numflora and a couple of lightberries, there are a few that don't quite sit right with me: - The Tundra Gemshrub seems difficult to justify bringing over also, as it might be at odds with the pioneeroots and its own cousin flora. - The slingberries would come to have decently healthy numbers over on Barlowe, making their spread here redundant. - The thawgrasses count as vandriswoop flora, so it would be better off to let MNIDJM save them. - At first the Needlevine appears to be a worthwhile pick for spreading, as it is a relatively unique variety of purple flora with no immediately close relatives. But due to it already possessing a sprawling rhizomous growth pattern, it will prove to be a persistent obstacle to dorite's upcoming grass-like orbion. Still, it may not become that pressing a roadblock due to its perplexing phenomenon of asexual-only propagation, and that a more heavily lignaceous rhizomal network requires more energy and nutrients to maintain than the presumably less demanding orbion. All in all, I still appreciate that your Arkcrafting Hookphlyer could give a select few ill-fated biota a second lease at further diversity. It's just that we want to ensure it doesn't become too broken and potentially compromise any emerging ecosystems. |
While I do see your potential point with the Icicleback in it potentially overrunning Meineac and thus might remove it for that reason, I don't think it would "undermine" the Beach Cheekhorn, as those shrews are quite different in terms of anatomy and lifestyle. An argument against removing it would be that its adaptation to strictly live in cold areas could limit it to there, while there is also not that much it would compete with directly in those areas. When other species do show up like the shrogs and the tipsnappers, the Icicleback would be relatively limited in what niches it could take, with it probably going down the route of being small rodent-like creatures. Thoughts on this response?
I have said this many time before, but I think the ittiz fees are not that broken(except for the Mohaw Foi, which is too big and too complex for a single celled organism). The Carpet Foi is about the same size as the larger species of fois that are still alive today, while the Ittiz Foi is only slightly larger then that, plus both of them are not that demanding in lfiestyle in being detritivores. Their larger size would allow them to take advantage of larger bits of detritius than things like Minifees and thus partially avoid competiton. If nessecary, they could be replaced by descendants that go into different niches (i myself had been thinking about a descendant of either one of them that becomes predatory and prey on minifees). If these make it, then the Foi-Devourer Sauceback could also survive, which would be restricted to the salt bog as inland it would face competition from things like the Glacial Sauceback and its descendants native to the continent.
I feel like the Tundra Gemshrub would not be in a lot of trouble, as it is a fast growing moss-like flora that is specalized for cold climates, unlike the pioneeroots who seem to be a jack-of-all trades that does not specalize for specific lifestyles (until you get to their descendants, who are mostly found in Drake and Wallace+Vivus). Plus the Tundra Gemshrub would likely have a better chance of settling in than its descendant the Ruby Cruster, since that taxon grows a sort of calcite shell around their stems which likely takes longer to grow.
Most of the slingberries had already been removed, the once exception being the Quilled Slingberry which i had proposed to Cheatsy might be able to settle in without too much issue and currently waiting for a response from him.
I had already removed the thawgrasses from the list
I feel like the last few sentences regarding the Needlevine explain why I think it could stay. It takes longer to grow and its asexual only reproduction means its at a disadavantage compared to the orbions, who grow more quickly and rather early on develop sexual reproduction.
I hope these address your points.
| QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 18 2022, 10:30 PM) |
| OviFan, I want to remind you that I stated to Dobem should be removed due to its aggressive and competitive nature making it like bringing pigs to Australia, also the Doboor does exist and is reasonably similar to the Dobem. Furthermore, I will admit I cannot find any sound reason to deny the Divedove access, but I am requiring one descendant only if it makes it. |
Wait when exactly did the Dobem part come up, i can see your point on why it should likely not cross over but I don't recall you talking about not including it before.
| QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Aug 18 2022, 07:40 PM) | ||
Wait when exactly did the Dobem part come up, i can see your point on why it should likely not cross over but I don't recall you talking about not including it before. |
| QUOTE (TheBigDeepCheatsy @ Aug 16 2022, 09:20 PM) | ||
If there must be a choice between the two, I will say the Divedove, but it requires one descendant replacement (No splits). I cannot promise that it will make it, but you have made your case for the Divedove on my end. On another note, for the case with the Dobem, I will be declining that as due to its more competitive and aggressive nature, it could easily outcompete all sorts of fauna. Think of it like bringing pigs to an unprepared island. I further recently discussed with Dorite and have come to a personal compromise on an organism I longed to do, the "Dododoria", and am willing to utilize the Doboor for that once I have a good visual on how the beak should work. For the Fee and Foi-Devouring Sauceback, I have come to remember that the selected Fee are broken and I have confidence that if it hadn't been for the event that wiped out Ittiz, another way would have been found to eliminate those fee in particular. Unfortunately, this would also mean the death of the Foi-Devourer would be inevitable. |
However, I will confess that this was an edited response, my apologies for not considering that.
Alright, i'll remove the Dobem from the list.
As for the Fois, I'll copy and past my argument on why they could survive and spread in response to dingus's comment on them.
"I have said this many time before, but I think the ittiz fees are not that broken(except for the Mohaw Foi, which is too big and too complex for a single celled organism). The Carpet Foi is about the same size as the larger species of fois that are still alive today, while the Ittiz Foi is only slightly larger then that, plus both of them are not that demanding in lfiestyle in being detritivores. Their larger size would allow them to take advantage of larger bits of detritius than things like Minifees and thus partially avoid competiton. If nessecary, they could be replaced by descendants that go into different niches (i myself had been thinking about a descendant of either one of them that becomes predatory and prey on minifees). If these make it, then the Foi-Devourer Sauceback could also survive, which would be restricted to the salt bog as inland it would face competition from things like the Glacial Sauceback and its descendants native to the continent."
As for the Fois, I'll copy and past my argument on why they could survive and spread in response to dingus's comment on them.
"I have said this many time before, but I think the ittiz fees are not that broken(except for the Mohaw Foi, which is too big and too complex for a single celled organism). The Carpet Foi is about the same size as the larger species of fois that are still alive today, while the Ittiz Foi is only slightly larger then that, plus both of them are not that demanding in lfiestyle in being detritivores. Their larger size would allow them to take advantage of larger bits of detritius than things like Minifees and thus partially avoid competiton. If nessecary, they could be replaced by descendants that go into different niches (i myself had been thinking about a descendant of either one of them that becomes predatory and prey on minifees). If these make it, then the Foi-Devourer Sauceback could also survive, which would be restricted to the salt bog as inland it would face competition from things like the Glacial Sauceback and its descendants native to the continent."
Any updates on this situation, the Arkcrafting Hookphlyer can't be further optimized unless everyone is satisfied with the final listing.
Apologies for getting around to this so late.
Just a quick reminder of what's left, please?
As for the fee (and foi-devourer by proxy), I will admit that I am biased against having them on board partly because while I am unable to personally see much problem with your argument, in terms of meta, the issue is that is inadvertently devalues the Pirate Waxface surviving along with adding more work than there needs to be with trying to fix the broken fee (Even if they're not THAT broken) along with incorporating the new Mainieac fauna/flora, when there's already a lot of work to do as is that it could cause a notable bloat in trying to set up ecosystems more properly. On the moderator side of things, there's still a lot of work to be done with the organisms we currently have and still trying to tweak any accidental oversights that were made.
This is partly why some of the people I've spoke to have been suggesting doing flora and bugs only, but I'd rather try to make some sort of way to compromise further between all options, hence why I made this proposal to begin with.
Just a quick reminder of what's left, please?
As for the fee (and foi-devourer by proxy), I will admit that I am biased against having them on board partly because while I am unable to personally see much problem with your argument, in terms of meta, the issue is that is inadvertently devalues the Pirate Waxface surviving along with adding more work than there needs to be with trying to fix the broken fee (Even if they're not THAT broken) along with incorporating the new Mainieac fauna/flora, when there's already a lot of work to do as is that it could cause a notable bloat in trying to set up ecosystems more properly. On the moderator side of things, there's still a lot of work to be done with the organisms we currently have and still trying to tweak any accidental oversights that were made.
This is partly why some of the people I've spoke to have been suggesting doing flora and bugs only, but I'd rather try to make some sort of way to compromise further between all options, hence why I made this proposal to begin with.
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