Sagan 4 Forum [Menu]

Shrews lost the ability to do color change, which happened before the gained fur as well, which in turn prevents the crazy color stuff from happening in them. Cephalopods did not "master pigments" nor did early spondylozoans. Chromatophores are just pigment sacs that open and close and are restricted by pigment types and structural color.

QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Sep 9 2022, 09:56 AM)

Shrews lost the ability to do color change, which happened before the gained fur as well, which in turn prevents the crazy color stuff from happening in them. Cephalopods did not "master pigments" nor did early spondylozoans.

Hmmm. Well since since they don't eat glass flora and there is arguments about fur not being liek feathers i am going to change to the berry juice method. since that is harder to "debunk"

IN ADDITION, the cell type used to do colors like that in cephalopods and reptiles are LOST in all endotherms on Earth. It is reasonable to conclude that they would be in shrews as well.

If it helps, you could mention the use of natural cosmetics in some real-life birds (https://www.audubon.org/news/these-birds-wear-makeup). Due to the sheer variety of colors on Sagan 4, it's possible some bluish microbes could accumulate in puddles or other fairly large quantities.

Ok altered the pigment part and added stuff about the chin horns.

TLDR
They now have different colored hair depending upon the color berry they use. I feel like this is going into "Brony" territory now.

This post has been edited by Hydromancerx: Sep 9 2022, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 9 2022, 09:51 AM)

QUOTE (colddigger @ Sep 9 2022, 12:10 PM) https://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007...he-physics-of-s Just do a blue feather Fur can't exactly do that if i recall correctly, since that structure is specifically seen in feathers.

That doesn't mean much to me

https://academy.allaboutbirds.org/how-birds...orful-feathers/

The bubbles can be in fur I assume

This post has been edited by colddigger: Sep 9 2022, 12:03 PM

Will say the torso is still too short, making it look like the Quillyn has no guts. Can you please extend the torso?

(Note: I made this without looking at the description, just to engage in broad discussions of it. I see know that you've pointed out it loves to eat berries.)

You could probably cheat a little on the exact length of the torso by saying it eats mainly highly digestible tissues, such as berries and tender new leaves, and that its stomach is farther up in its body than one might guess. It could have a crop, although that would surely make the neck or chest bigger. You could also make it re-eat its feces, like a rabbit, although I'm not sure how practical that would be for something of its size. Since it does live in some tropical habitats, and has a broad diet, it's possible berries could be a significant part of its diet year-round in some habitats.

EDIT:
https://www.life.illinois.edu/ib/453/453lec9herbivory.pdf
It seems longer-lived leaves are tougher with more tannins (antinutrients that deter feeding), so if this eats mainly pioneer/early-succession species, its diet should be more digestible.

Alright, the redraw for the Beach Cheekhorn was recently completed, so i'll leave it here as a reference. Notice the relatively long torso of the species compared to the Quillyn. Plus it also turns out this species has four toes on all four feet.

This post has been edited by OviraptorFan: Sep 12 2022, 06:50 PM

hm does that mean the toe count is wrong and needs to be explained or adjusted?

Horses, famously, have lost toes over the course of evolution. Quillyns having one fewer toe can be inspired by that, or perhaps other, lesser-known examples.

re: Torso proportions & neck thickness for chewing cud



(Admittedly, if there ever was a questionable submission to that Sol 3 project....)

Given that the giraffe's neck is thinner but can still push up the cud, and i t's torso proportions are nearly identical to the Quillyn, the Quillyn seem well equipped for their diet.

QUOTE

Similarity between the hair and feather architectonics: (a) the ring-forming cuticle of the base of a guard hair of Galemys pyrenaicus ; ( the cuticle of barbules of the downy part of a contour feather of Ixobrychus minutus ; © heterogeneous cortex on a cross section of a blue barb of a contour feather vane of Amazona leucocephala ; (d) pigment granules on the walls of medulla cavities of a barb of a contour feather vane of Vanellus vanellus ; (e) the medulla of a spine of Erethizon dorsatum ; (f) the medulla of a spine of a barb of a contour feather vane of Columba livia ; (g) the perforated medulla of a guard hair of Viverra megaspila ; (h) the perforated medulla of a blue barb of a contour feather vane of Amazona leucocephala. Scale bars: (a–c, f) 10 µ m; (d, g, h) 1 µ m; (e) 100 µ m.

-Source

.........needs a more thorough deep dive but it sounds like at least some of the structures that let feather barbules capture air bubbles to produce blue light scattering are also similar to the rings of hair cuticles.

I also question how universal would the rarity of blue hair pigments be, especially on a planet where everything seems to evolve purple hair pigments without difficulty matching with the flora very early on, and those pigments have to deal with an even shorter wavelength. I think it's more reasonable for our arguments to account for the history of life on sagan, even if it means handwaving short wavelength pigments, maybe stemming from different ways protosagania builds pigments.

edit: Wait do cephalopods use blue pigments Isn't that just their blood? (I am pretty sure that the example was brought up about the general color changing abilities this lineage and cephalopods share and wasn't specifically about cephalopod blue pigments, but now I am curious, need to check it out later)

This post has been edited by Jarlaxle: Nov 27 2022, 09:46 AM

“It’s ancestor”
“Hoofs”: while “hoofs” was the older, traditional form of the word, “hooves” seems more common in modern use.
“Their chin”: this is a plural possessive error.
“Tail,.” This is a typo.
“Jusice”: “juice”.
“Their tail”: plural possessive error.
“Each others”: Each other’s.
“Actual hit”: Actually hit.
“Modified quill”: “modified quills”.
“To big”: “too big”.
“The semiaquatic”: The semiaquatic plants?

While a view of a female Quillyn's face would be useful to indicate the thickness of the throat when not covered by tufts, this otherwise seems suited for approval.

QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Dec 28 2022, 04:47 PM)

“It’s ancestor” “Hoofs”: while “hoofs” was the older, traditional form of the word, “hooves” seems more common in modern use. “Their chin”: this is a plural possessive error. “Tail,.” This is a typo. “Jusice”: “juice”. “Their tail”: plural possessive error. “Each others”: Each other’s. “Actual hit”: Actually hit. “Modified quill”: “modified quills”. “To big”: “too big”. “The semiaquatic”: The semiaquatic plants? While a view of a female Quillyn's face would be useful to indicate the thickness of the throat when not covered by tufts, this otherwise seems suited for approval.

Fixed.

Love the juicy explanation. Does the cyan on the tail and legs stem from the juice as well? Is it an artifact of self-grooming or maybe social grooming (do they have a hierarchy within male bachelor herds)?

If we zoomed into the juice-absorbent hairs under a microscope would they appear more like translucent sponges or hollow vase like tubes or maybe leaf like structures that use adhesion and surface tension to collect and hold onto the juice droplets?

I'm wondering what can these hair structures evolve into. Imagine things like water storage or grooming oils or retaining the scents of social bonds or forming scent disguises or creating an environment for bonded bacteria to grow in.