I have a major question for this eartheater that I am making to live on the surface. I'm aiming it to go for flying, but it needs a few points I need to clarify. Firstly, could it produce some kind of endoskeleton with the fibers in a silica form? Jarlaxle suggested me this, saying "fiberglass weighs 1.5kg per cubic meter, bone weighs 1.85kg per cubic meter, and it is a lot easier to maintain rigid structures with less fiberglass then it is with less bone"
Secondly, how could I create a "jaw" using the fibers on the arms?
Thirdly, without any bone, how could this species land from flying?
Lastly, what would be a effective method for the species to stay dry on land? It can still have eggs in water
Secondly, how could I create a "jaw" using the fibers on the arms?
Thirdly, without any bone, how could this species land from flying?
Lastly, what would be a effective method for the species to stay dry on land? It can still have eggs in water
You may have have an easier time using materials other than fiberglass. While silica tests have some precedent in diatoms, and internal silica lattices are found in glass sponges such as the Venus's flower basket, none of them are bones.
To adapt arms into jaws, you might have some success looking into the evolution of arthropod mouthparts, such as pedipalps, which seem to have evolved from antennae.
One option is not landing at all. Bats generally don't land: they find a spot from which they can hang upside-down. Hooking itself onto something might still involve pulling pressure on body, though, which is a problem of its own if it doesn't have bones. If it lands on something soft, that would cushion the impact, although it would probably might need some kind of hard tissue to fly at all.
Bees have flexible, membranous wings which do not have bones in them, but if the arms are already used as mouthparts, that might complicate using them for wings. I am not familiar enough with the lineage's physiology to know whether it could duplicate those limbs and have one dedicated to flying.
You would have an easier time coming up with biologically plausible concepts by looking up material innovations inspired by nature and copying how it occurs in nature, rather than trying to incorporate an entirely artificial material with no real precedent in nature into a living creature.
To adapt arms into jaws, you might have some success looking into the evolution of arthropod mouthparts, such as pedipalps, which seem to have evolved from antennae.
One option is not landing at all. Bats generally don't land: they find a spot from which they can hang upside-down. Hooking itself onto something might still involve pulling pressure on body, though, which is a problem of its own if it doesn't have bones. If it lands on something soft, that would cushion the impact, although it would probably might need some kind of hard tissue to fly at all.
Bees have flexible, membranous wings which do not have bones in them, but if the arms are already used as mouthparts, that might complicate using them for wings. I am not familiar enough with the lineage's physiology to know whether it could duplicate those limbs and have one dedicated to flying.
You would have an easier time coming up with biologically plausible concepts by looking up material innovations inspired by nature and copying how it occurs in nature, rather than trying to incorporate an entirely artificial material with no real precedent in nature into a living creature.
I'm pretty sure this fiber isn't artifical, it's the part that makes up the claw-like parts of the eartheater. I don't think it has any way of developing a endoskeleton at all from what you guys are saying...
Maybe I shouldn't use the flying card for this species. Btw, when looking up a rock pigeon size, it said it was a wingspan of 60cm, and dorite, you said that maximum size is a pigeon right? So the largest species without bone would be a wingspan of 60cm?
Maybe I shouldn't use the flying card for this species. Btw, when looking up a rock pigeon size, it said it was a wingspan of 60cm, and dorite, you said that maximum size is a pigeon right? So the largest species without bone would be a wingspan of 60cm?
What could be alternatives of getting this fiber skeleton, besides not getting any endoskeleton at all?
Upon rereading..the hooks aren't made from fiber glass, it's "biogenic silica." So would that still become a problem for becoming bones?
Well, your options for making an endoskeleton of bones resembling a vertebrate skeleton are very limited:
Core Rules:
"To avoid breaking realism, there must be a balance between unique features and convergent evolution. There are some cases where it is better to copy a feature from Earth organisms, and others where it is better to take an original approach.
- Full skeletons cannot evolve the same shape twice. For example, vertebrates with jaws and skulls have already evolved, so you should either evolve an existing one or come up with a different kind of skeleton."
On the other hand, vertebrates aren't the only ones with endoskeletons: echinoderms have them too. As long as it doesn't have a skull and jaws (at least vertebrate-style jaws), that also provides more flexibility in the design. Some kind of configuration based on glass sponges combined with echinoderms would fit within the rules, but whether that shape allows for flight is a different matter.
Core Rules:
"To avoid breaking realism, there must be a balance between unique features and convergent evolution. There are some cases where it is better to copy a feature from Earth organisms, and others where it is better to take an original approach.
- Full skeletons cannot evolve the same shape twice. For example, vertebrates with jaws and skulls have already evolved, so you should either evolve an existing one or come up with a different kind of skeleton."
On the other hand, vertebrates aren't the only ones with endoskeletons: echinoderms have them too. As long as it doesn't have a skull and jaws (at least vertebrate-style jaws), that also provides more flexibility in the design. Some kind of configuration based on glass sponges combined with echinoderms would fit within the rules, but whether that shape allows for flight is a different matter.
| QUOTE |
| Biogenic silica, also referred to as opal, biogenic opal, or amorphous opaline silica, forms one of the most widespread biogenic minerals. For example, microscopic particles of silica called phytoliths can be found in grasses and other plants. |
The claws are made out of opal it seems for the flatbun. In the eartheater, it made this harder, so I don't see why it can't become some kind of skeleton like a mesoskeleton or a endoskeleton?
The trouble isn't necessarily that it can't have a skeleton made from (or primarily from) biogenic silica.The trouble is that the configuration of the endoskeleton would have to be different from pre-existing vertebrate-like configurations, because of Sagan 4's rules to reduce convergent evolution to plausible levels. If every big, terrestrial lineage got vertebrate skeletons and skulls independently, that wouldn't be realistic. Proceeding is tricky, though, because there are no flying echinoderms, which are hypothetically the easiest way to go if one can't go with the vertebrate configuration. In fact, there don't seem to even be any terrestrial echinoderms. Making a flying descendent of the Eartheater would therefore be difficult.
| QUOTE (Future Tyrannosaurus @ Mar 22 2023, 06:42 AM) |
 This is the skeleton for the planned species in gen 22. |
The skeleton is only really on the arms, and it develops a blobby part below the arm to absrob damage so it could maybe prevent the shattering of the bone.
This skeleton isn't very realistic. And it will still shatter really easily because it's still basically glass which is very brittle.
| QUOTE (Disgustedorite @ Mar 22 2023, 07:07 AM) |
| This skeleton isn't very realistic. And it will still shatter really easily because it's still basically glass which is very brittle. |
How come opal skeleton shatters but the opal "hooks" don't break at all? Also, the eartheater does make this opal more durable
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