For the "mouth-nostril" bearhog issue, I think we should retroactively incorporate the weird butt-nostrils into the bearhog evolution, if possible. It's much more interesting then them just having normal nostrils covered by leaf-wings, after all.
Also, what do we even do about some of these? Like the plenthog chemoreceptor issue.I think for the hornface one, the description of the ancestral hornface should be edited to state that the origin of the horns are, 'yknow, separate from the barbels and they didn't somehow "become" horns? And maybe the hornface images should also be edited so that they still have the barbels along with the horns. Honestly a lot of Hydro's pre-reboot descriptions need to be expanded/edited.
Also, what do we even do about some of these? Like the plenthog chemoreceptor issue.I think for the hornface one, the description of the ancestral hornface should be edited to state that the origin of the horns are, 'yknow, separate from the barbels and they didn't somehow "become" horns? And maybe the hornface images should also be edited so that they still have the barbels along with the horns. Honestly a lot of Hydro's pre-reboot descriptions need to be expanded/edited.
So I noticed something odd regarding thornbacks foot anatomy.
Certain species of Thornbacks drawn by Nergali appear to have 3 hind toes.
Now when I asked him about earlier species such as the Snapjaw and Shantak, he says those taxa were supposed to only have *two* hind toes and the fact they appear to have 3 hind toes is merely an artistic error.
The Flumpus, meanwhile, is a much more clear distinct case of misinterpretation as they evolved from a species with only two hind toes and clearly show a third toe.
Then there is, however, a variety of thornback species from several clades that have a larger problem.
This particular problem comes from most of the Thornbacks made by Coolsteph, where they all have only one toe on each foot for all four limbs. No reason is given to why they have this arrangement, and it occurs in multiple thornback clades that all together only share a common ancestor with the OG Thornback.
Its a very clear case of misinterpretation and has left an affect on some of their descendants like the Stiltstrider and as such must be dealt with.
The ancestral condition of feet in tilebacks is 3 front toes and 2 hind toes, a configuration that can still be seen in most tileback clades both living and extinct.
So I guess the best way to clear this up is by first asking the original creator of the Thornback about the number of toes.
Hey kopout! How many toes on the front feet and back feet does the original Thornback have?
Certain species of Thornbacks drawn by Nergali appear to have 3 hind toes.
Now when I asked him about earlier species such as the Snapjaw and Shantak, he says those taxa were supposed to only have *two* hind toes and the fact they appear to have 3 hind toes is merely an artistic error.
The Flumpus, meanwhile, is a much more clear distinct case of misinterpretation as they evolved from a species with only two hind toes and clearly show a third toe.
Then there is, however, a variety of thornback species from several clades that have a larger problem.
This particular problem comes from most of the Thornbacks made by Coolsteph, where they all have only one toe on each foot for all four limbs. No reason is given to why they have this arrangement, and it occurs in multiple thornback clades that all together only share a common ancestor with the OG Thornback.
Its a very clear case of misinterpretation and has left an affect on some of their descendants like the Stiltstrider and as such must be dealt with.
The ancestral condition of feet in tilebacks is 3 front toes and 2 hind toes, a configuration that can still be seen in most tileback clades both living and extinct.
So I guess the best way to clear this up is by first asking the original creator of the Thornback about the number of toes.
Hey kopout! How many toes on the front feet and back feet does the original Thornback have?
A lot of the early thornbacks made by Solpimr seem to have only one toe on their front and hind legs, which is why I depicted my descendants of them as having only one toe each. However, I should be able to slightly revise the art for most of them without much trouble to give them the correct number of toes, or at least intermediate toe numbers. The mixed-media colored pencil or pencil ones would be trickier to fix, though. If I couldn't simply copy-and-paste and appropriately blur copies of the toes that already exist, I would need to modify the descriptions and try to justify them.
| QUOTE (Coolsteph @ Aug 26 2021, 08:17 PM) |
| A lot of the early thornbacks made by Solpimr seem to have only one toe on their front and hind legs, which is why I depicted my descendants of them as having only one toe each. However, I should be able to slightly revise the art for most of them without much trouble to give them the correct number of toes, or at least intermediate toe numbers. The mixed-media colored pencil or pencil ones would be trickier to fix, though. If I couldn't simply copy-and-paste and appropriately blur copies of the toes that already exist, I would need to modify the descriptions and try to justify them. |
Alright, I compiled a list of Thornback species that have this issue made by you directly.
Bubble-Throated Anklebiter
Acucravat
Cryocracker
Cryorasher
Winniemunk
Hockel
Billdeka
Pearback
Poultu
Flagg Grazer
Only 5 of these appear to be fully digital. Also the Poultu gives rise to the Stiltstrider, which retains a single toe on the hindlimbs but has 2 on the forelimbs so there is that guy to consider as well.
So Nergali wanted me to post these fixes he made for the thornback species that appeared to show three hind toes on each foot.
Do these look good enough to update the images on the wiki with?
Do these look good enough to update the images on the wiki with?
Should we wait a bit longer for Solpmir to respond regarding the original number of digits on the og thornback or should we discuss the number of digits on thornbacks now? I got a swap in the works of a thornback which is currently on hold because of the number of toes being unclear.
Solipmir has had plenty of time to respond. I think we should discuss the number of digits on thornbacks now. I myself have offered updated Duramboar art yesterday to take into account previous assumptions on thornback toes.
| QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Aug 26 2021, 08:41 PM) |
Alright, I compiled a list of Thornback species that have this issue made by you directly. Bubble-Throated Anklebiter Acucravat Cryocracker Cryorasher Winniemunk Hockel Billdeka Pearback Poultu Flagg Grazer Only 5 of these appear to be fully digital. Also the Poultu gives rise to the Stiltstrider, which retains a single toe on the hindlimbs but has 2 on the forelimbs so there is that guy to consider as well. |
In that case, here are the thornback species that still need to be addressed regarding them having only one toe on each foot. There is also the Duramboar which is missing a toe on their front feet, and it was not resolved with the Duramceri since its said there that the two toes are a recent development.
How should we address these thornbacks and their digits?
For the Acucravat, Cryocracker, Cryorasher, Winniemunk, and Hockel they should at least have two front toes since the Thumbwalker(which shares their common ancestor the Shortfaced Thornback) clearly shows at least two digits.
Actually almost all of these species have close relatives that have 3 front toes and two back toes thanks to either Hydro or Nergali. The only one that does not is the Bubble-Throated Anklebiter
| QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Sep 23 2021, 01:06 PM) | ||
In that case, here are the thornback species that still need to be addressed regarding them having only one toe on each foot. There is also the Duramboar which is missing a toe on their front feet, and it was not resolved with the Duramceri since its said there that the two toes are a recent development. How should we address these thornbacks and their digits? For the Acucravat, Cryocracker, Cryorasher, Winniemunk, and Hockel they should at least have two front toes since the Thumbwalker(which shares their common ancestor the Shortfaced Thornback) clearly shows at least two digits. Actually almost all of these species have close relatives that have 3 front toes and two back toes thanks to either Hydro or Nergali. The only one that does not is the Bubble-Throated Anklebiter |
So lets see....what is the current plan for all these guys? Will they regain digits or will their lack of digits get explained?
A possible case of misinterpretation, but I noticed that from the Scavenging Parrotworm to the Parrotworm Lurker, a large pelvic fin-like structure is lost. I'm uncertain if it was intentional, if the artist simply forgot to add it, or if it was intended to be smaller and thus hidden behind the pectoral fins, as there is no mention of this in the description, but all subsequent descendants no longer depict this fin.
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Scavenging_Parrotworm
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Parrotworm_Lurker
On a similar note, the Feathery Plagu, without explanation, suddenly possesses fins that are more akin to those of a shark as opposed to those of ray finned fish, which has been retained in its sole living descendant.
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Feathery_Plagu
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Scavenging_Parrotworm
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Parrotworm_Lurker
On a similar note, the Feathery Plagu, without explanation, suddenly possesses fins that are more akin to those of a shark as opposed to those of ray finned fish, which has been retained in its sole living descendant.
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Feathery_Plagu
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Bloodbee
This is said to feed on plent afterbirths, but ambulatory plents do not have afterbirths and never have. Afterbirth is ejection of the placenta, which in mammals is a highly derived egg; not only are several of the listed plents not actually placental, but because ambulatory plents have never laid eggs, the ones that do have placentas absorb them, rather than shedding them. (Does this count as misinterpretation? idk where else to put this)
| QUOTE (Coolsteph) |
| Fortunately for the bloodbee, it does not need to make wounds to feed on the blood-rich afterbirth of giant hornfaces, snoofloos, drakoggs, dualtrunks, plentshirshus, barkbacks, rosybeak phylers, cragagons, striped phlockss, briarbacks, tasermanes, and handlicker dundis. (It especially likes dualtrunk afterbirth.) |
This is said to feed on plent afterbirths, but ambulatory plents do not have afterbirths and never have. Afterbirth is ejection of the placenta, which in mammals is a highly derived egg; not only are several of the listed plents not actually placental, but because ambulatory plents have never laid eggs, the ones that do have placentas absorb them, rather than shedding them. (Does this count as misinterpretation? idk where else to put this)
I suppose it counts as a misinterpretation.
Would it be acceptable to modify it to say "any fluids left on them from the birthing process"?
Would it be acceptable to modify it to say "any fluids left on them from the birthing process"?
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