Sagan 4 Forum [Menu]

I'm a bit curious, but it looks like the flight feathers are only on the tips of the wings, wherein in the ancestor they extended all the way to where the limbs connected to the main body.

Is there a reason for this, as would it not make them poorer flyers?

Hair Nimbuses is wrote as "Hair, Nimbuses"

QUOTE (Nergali @ Dec 4 2021, 08:54 PM)

I'm a bit curious, but it looks like the flight feathers are only on the tips of the wings, wherein in the ancestor they extended all the way to where the limbs connected to the main body. Is there a reason for this, as would it not make them poorer flyers?

Indirectly it makes them better flyers. The toe acts as the wingtip, and the thick thigh muscles create a 2 link sliding action between the first and the 2nd bones on the limb.

When flying you wouldn't notice the gap as the feathers would likely spread over it.

QUOTE (SpeedTowel @ Dec 6 2021, 09:26 PM)

Hair Nimbuses is wrote as "Hair, Nimbuses"

Fixed
Hair eating was a problem but they've managed to break the bad habit.

This post has been edited by Papainmanis: Dec 6 2021, 02:27 PM

Could you add the generation number to the image?

QUOTE (SpeedTowel @ Dec 11 2021, 04:15 PM)

Could you add the generation number to the image?

Fixed

Another update: a group of songsauce Pipers is now a gala.

This post has been edited by Papainmanis: Dec 13 2021, 02:11 AM

While the coloration is great and the description is pretty good, I think the anatomy can use some work.

I feel like this species has anatomy that changes a bit too much from their ancestor. Judging by the description, I feel like you should look at the Quail Raptor and the Sausophrey for reference as they are both flying saucebacks that have different lifestyle from one another.

This species looks like like a kind of flying sauceback and more like a kind of songbird that was then traced over to have sauceback-like features.

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Dec 14 2021, 07:37 PM)

While the coloration is great and the description is pretty good, I think the anatomy can use some work. I feel like this species has anatomy that changes a bit too much from their ancestor. Judging by the description, I feel like you should look at the Quail Raptor and the Sausophrey for reference as they are both flying saucebacks that have different lifestyle from one another. This species looks like like a kind of flying sauceback and more like a kind of songbird that was then traced over to have sauceback-like features.

We've being over this in DMs, but let me take another approach:

OviraptorFan, do you know what are your best saucebacks?

these two:
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Tierracolmillos
https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Kuraimingaku

While they do make sense as descendants of their ancestors. They - much like the criticism you seem eager to bestow on my work repeatedly - don't look much like the standard sauceback. Rather, they are each building on the sauceback anatomy in very different directions, they each push the lines and use the anatomical toolset to tackle different challenges in different niches, each bursting with potential, each awaiting to see what can you do with them next.

Do not relegate yourself - or others - to the role of doing more of the same. Push the god damn line.

https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Interbiat

Seems fine to me.

I'm interested what the anatomical differences are that would be considered too much.

QUOTE (Papainmanis @ Dec 15 2021, 06:47 PM)

QUOTE (OviraptorFan @ Dec 14 2021, 07:37 PM) While the coloration is great and the description is pretty good, I think the anatomy can use some work. I feel like this species has anatomy that changes a bit too much from their ancestor. Judging by the description, I feel like you should look at the Quail Raptor and the Sausophrey for reference as they are both flying saucebacks that have different lifestyle from one another. This species looks like like a kind of flying sauceback and more like a kind of songbird that was then traced over to have sauceback-like features. We've being over this in DMs, but let me take another approach: OviraptorFan, do you know what are your best saucebacks? these two: https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Tierracolmillos https://sagan4alpha.miraheze.org/wiki/Kuraimingaku While they do make sense as descendants of their ancestors. They - much like the criticism you seem eager to bestow on my work repeatedly - don't look much like the standard sauceback. Rather, they are each building on the sauceback anatomy in very different directions, they each push the lines and use the anatomical toolset to tackle different challenges in different niches, each bursting with potential, each awaiting to see what can you do with them next. Do not relegate yourself - or others - to the role of doing more of the same. Push the god damn line.

Firstly, watch your temper.

Second, those saucebacks are the results of me looking at how some saucebacks could adapt to take a certain niche. These niches, those of a burrower and a tree climber, required certain adaptations for them to function. I didn't make them to "push the line" your your claiming your sauceback is doing. Their bizarre appearance was just a by-product of me having them actually able to live their particular lifestyles. Species like the running secretmaw look similar to their ancestors because their niches did not require that much change from their ancestors to properly fill it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Why would the Songsauce Piper evolve in this particular direction? Did the niche its trying to fill require it to make these changes in anatomy? Why would a bodyplan similar to other flying saucebacks not work for this kind of niche?

@Papainmanis Watch it, uncalled for aggression is not tolerated. This is your only warning.

Is the problem that it's legsa are not straighter?

QUOTE (colddigger @ Jan 7 2022, 03:07 AM)

Is the problem that it's legsa are not straighter?

I believe the trigger to the unfortunate chain of events was this:

QUOTE

By extending the length of the outer hoof-toe and growing wing feathers directly from it, it was able to function as a flexible wingtip, forming elliptical wing proportions. As the toes maintain a mostly homologous relationship, growing a longer and thinner outer wingtip-toe has also resulted in a longer and thinner inner toe to walk on. While it will still run on its hoofs, it will increasingly rely on a plantigrade pose in rest or when perching. With the main curve of the wing provided by the wingtip toe, the cannon bone extended further out while the tibia and femur shrunk, reducing the wing area under the knee but in turn allowing thick thigh muscles to stretch between the tibia and the femur, resulting in a two bar linkage mechanism

Which is understandable, as all saucebacks are supposed to be in the mold of odd toed ungulates. Who could ever think of species changing the length of their toes? No such absurd examples exit in nature! now back to the topic of odd toed ungulates...

This post has been edited by Papainmanis: Jan 7 2022, 12:58 AM

Isn't a two bar linkage mechanism already what a femur and tibia act like?
Or are they normally one bar mechanisms acting in unison.
Maybe I misunderstand.

"convey rich emotional overtones that would be instinctively, "

This reads like a word is missing, maybe the word "understood".

"While it will still run on its hoofs"

I've seen the word hoofs and hooves, both of which are proper plurals before anyone else mentions it.

QUOTE (colddigger @ Jan 7 2022, 09:29 AM)

Isn't a two bar linkage mechanism already what a femur and tibia act like? Or are they normally one bar mechanisms acting in unison. Maybe I misunderstand. "convey rich emotional overtones that would be instinctively, " This reads like a word is missing, maybe the word "understood". "While it will still run on its hoofs" I've seen the word hoofs and hooves, both of which are proper plurals before anyone else mentions it.

a slider-rocker linkeage system would be more accurate, I fixed it so it's hopefully more clear, ended up going with hooves.

QUOTE (Nergali @ Dec 4 2021, 08:54 PM)

I'm a bit curious, but it looks like the flight feathers are only on the tips of the wings, wherein in the ancestor they extended all the way to where the limbs connected to the main body. Is there a reason for this, as would it not make them poorer flyers?

Inspired by the this question I've added a shadow view mid flight of the sort that is common in bird watcher textbooks. if this proves helpeful I'll make it a staple of any flying organisms I make in the future.

This post has been edited by Papainmanis: Jan 7 2022, 05:14 PM

Is there anything that still needs to be addressed here?